[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jet

So you don't think the leader of the Oppositions stance is relevant in all this? That nobody should mention it to either criticise or otherwise?

Where did I say that? Can you point it out for me?

I'm just against the idea of turning this situation into a popularity contest which it's rapidly becoming.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

This situation shouldn't be a pissing contest, either in the polls or on here. Its a fairly serious situation that needs dealing with....not a tit for tat war of words.

Indeed. A potentially serious international incident is being turned into "Corbyn vs May", seemingly everywhere, that's very much the impression I get on here and from looking at the various tabloid front pages.

That says a lot about the times we're living in all on its own, in my opinion.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Where did I say that? Can you point it out for me?

I'm just against the idea of turning this situation into a popularity contest which it's rapidly becoming.

It's not a popularity contest though its a competence comparison, which is quite a bit different. People are not saying they like May more than Corbyn, they are saying that May is dealing with the situation better than Corbyn (in the majority).

It's at times of trouble that we see what people are made of and which we prefer to be representing us.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Indeed. A potentially serious international incident is being turned into "Corbyn vs May", seemingly everywhere, that's very much the impression I get on here and from looking at the various tabloid front pages.

That says a lot about the times we're living in all on its own, in my opinion.

You've changed - very recently you were saying it was a relatively minor incident and how the gov. were over - reacting big time (or words to that effect.)

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It's not a popularity contest though its a competence comparison, which is quite a bit different. People are not saying they like May more than Corbyn, they are saying that May is dealing with the situation better than Corbyn (in the majority).

It's at times of trouble that we see what people are made of and which we prefer to be representing us.

Last paragraph deserves applause.

[jet]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It's not a popularity contest though its a competence comparison, which is quite a bit different. People are not saying they like May more than Corbyn, they are saying that May is dealing with the situation better than Corbyn (in the majority).

It's at times of trouble that we see what people are made of and which we prefer to be representing us.

Well said!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It's not a popularity contest though its a competence comparison, which is quite a bit different. People are not saying they like May more than Corbyn, they are saying that May is dealing with the situation better than Corbyn (in the majority).

It's at times of trouble that we see what people are made of and which we prefer to be representing us.

I don't think one incident is proof of competency on either side. May and her government are weak and wishy washy and doing her best impression of Churchill won't change that.

She's handled this situation well so far but I don't think that makes her the leader we need going forward, it doesn't change her myriad of mistakes.

It's one incident and not one that will define either party going forward.

[Tom4784]

I also disagree with the last sentence.

Most people will rise to the challenge in times of crisis but you see a person for who they truly are in the small moments when they aren't forced to act in a certain way.

[Twosugars]

The language in this conflict is getting less and less diplomatic.

Williamson, defence secretary told Russia to shut up and go away.
Russian defence ministry replied: "The extreme level of the intellectual impotence of the head of the British Ministry of Defence Gavin Williamson was clearly demonstrated today by his rhetoric - of a vulgar old harpy".

Now, I don't know about vulgar harpy, but Williamson is not old.

Also, Russian media is floating a theory that the Skripals were poisoned by the Brits in order to pick a fight with Russia and turn attention away from Brexit.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Sorry, but i dont find a serious threat to world peace very amusing


Each ti thier own though, just a shame that you lack emphathy.

It's a shame you lack objectivity.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Is it better that that was a conclusion that was jumped to?... Not for me.

How unsavory is it that this seemingly has morphed into a corbyn v may popularity contest complete with #imwithmay hashtags :/

I would literally piss my pants laughing if it turns out that it's nothing to do with putin, you can get anything on the dark web it's prob just some nutter.

https://twitter.com/ainemichellel/st...026752/photo/1

Originally Posted by jet

What point?

That one.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Jezza takes his bleeding time over some things. I wish he didn't. But I guess he got there in the end.
This is today's Guardian opinion piece by Corbyn

The Salisbury attack was appalling. But we must avoid a drift to conflict
Jeremy Corbyn

Britain needs to hold the perpetrators to account. Yet this is not a time for hasty judgments that could lead to a new cold war

Thu 15 Mar 2018 17.45 GMT Last modified on Thu 15 Mar 2018 18.02 GMT


There can be no one in Britain who is not outraged by the appalling attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury last week. The use of military nerve agents on the streets of Britain is barbaric and beyond reckless. This horrific event demands first of all the most thorough and painstaking criminal investigation, conducted by our police and security services. They have a right to expect full support in their work, just as the public should also be able to expect calm heads and a measured response from their political leaders. To rush way ahead of the evidence being gathered by the police, in a fevered parliamentary atmosphere, serves neither justice nor our national security.

Theresa May was right on Monday to identify two possibilities for the source of the attack in Salisbury, given that the nerve agent used has been identified as of original Russian manufacture. Either this was a crime authored by the Russian state; or that state has allowed these deadly toxins to slip out of the control it has an obligation to exercise. If the latter, a connection to Russian mafia-like groups that have been allowed to gain a toehold in Britain cannot be excluded.

On Wednesday the prime minister ruled out neither option. Which of these ultimately prove to be the case is a matter for police and security professionals to determine. Hopefully the next step will be the arrest of those responsible.

As I said in parliament, the Russian authorities must be held to account on the basis of the evidence, and our response must be both decisive and proportionate. But let us not manufacture a division over Russia where none exists. Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent. Instead, Britain needs to uphold its laws and its values without reservation. And those should be allied to a foreign policy that uses every opportunity to reduce tensions and conflict wherever possible.

I will not step back from demanding that Russian money be excluded from our political system
This government’s diplomacy is failing the country. Unqualified support for Donald Trump and rolling out the red carpet for a Saudi despot not only betrays our values, it makes us less safe.

And our capacity to deal with outrages from Russia is compromised by the tidal wave of ill-gotten cash that Russian oligarchs – both allied with and opposed to the Russian government – have laundered through London over the past two decades. We must stop servicing Russian crony capitalism in Britain, and the corrupt billionaires who use London to protect their wealth.

So I will not step back from demanding that Russian money be excluded from our political system. We will be holding the government’s feet to the fire to fully back Labour’s proposed Magnitsky-style sanctions against human rights abusers, along with a wider crackdown on money laundering and tax avoidance.

We agree with the government’s action in relation to Russian diplomats, but measures to tackle the oligarchs and their loot would have a far greater impact on Russia’s elite than limited tit-for-tat expulsions. We are willing to back further sanctions as and when the investigation into the Salisbury attack produces results.

But if we are to unite our allies behind action that needs taking, we must make full use of existing international treaties and procedures for dealing with chemical weapons. That means working through the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons to reduce the threat from these horrific weapons, including if necessary an investigation by chemical weapons inspectors into the distribution of Soviet-era weapons.

There can and should be the basis for a common political response to this crime. But in my years in parliament I have seen clear thinking in an international crisis overwhelmed by emotion and hasty judgments too many times. Flawed intelligence and dodgy dossiers led to the calamity of the Iraq invasion. There was overwhelming bipartisan support for attacking Libya, but it proved to be wrong. A universal repugnance at the 9/11 attacks led to a war on Afghanistan that continues to this day, while terrorism has spread across the globe.

The continuing fallout from the collapse of the Soviet Union and the virtual collapse of the Russian state in the 1990s must be addressed through international law and diplomacy if we are to reverse the drift to conflict.

Right now, the perpetrators of the Salisbury attack must be identified and held to account. Only through firm multilateral action can we ensure such a shocking crime never happens again.

This is what I want from a statesman, not reactionary knee jerks or insults like Gavin Williamsons 'Go away and shut up'.... :/

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

The language in this conflict is getting less and less diplomatic.

Williamson, defence secretary told Russia to shut up and go away.
Russian defence ministry replied: "The extreme level of the intellectual impotence of the head of the British Ministry of Defence Gavin Williamson was clearly demonstrated today by his rhetoric - of a vulgar old harpy".

Now, I don't know about vulgar harpy, but Williamson is not old.

Also, Russian media is floating a theory that the Skripals were poisoned by the Brits in order to pick a fight with Russia and turn attention away from Brexit.

Possible, I was thinking that this may revival smacked of thatcher during the Falklands.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

It's not a popularity contest though its a competence comparison, which is quite a bit different. People are not saying they like May more than Corbyn, they are saying that May is dealing with the situation better than Corbyn (in the majority).

It's at times of trouble that we see what people are made of and which we prefer to be representing us.

[Nicky91]

not all russians are evil, just Putin and his regime


he is not suited for presidency, but then again neither is Trump so Russia & America are now similar to each other

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's a shame you lack objectivity.

Why, cause i firmly support may in this?

Suddenly anyone supporting may in this lacks objectivity?

Wow, go back to your life hating, go back to laughing about a poisoning, go back to laughing about the possibility of a cold war.

Judge yourself before others, some people need to look deep inside themselves..


Lack objectivity my arse.

[Nicky91]

Putin is basically the russian Trump


both unstable world leaders

[DemolitionRed]

We are already in a Cold War. It was re-launched in 2014 over the Ukraine. This attempted assassination incident has just stepped things up a notch. Russia has been receiving sanctions from the West for the last few years. Why else would Putin be telling the Russian people that they are under attack from the West?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

not all russians are evil, just Putin and his regime


he is not suited for presidency, but then again neither is Trump so Russia & America are now similar to each other

Trump and Putin aren't a good mix

[jaxie]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics...e-agent-attack

After a smidge of condemnation yesterday it looks like Jeremy is sneaking back to his original stance.

I wonder if this incident and his behaviour towards it will be where he shoots himself on the foot.

[DemolitionRed]

The Guardian: Corbyn backed May’s decision to expel 23 diplomats, but suggested a financial crackdown on Russian oligarchs would be more effective.

“We agree with the government’s action in relation to Russian diplomats, but measures to tackle the oligarchs and their loot would have a far greater impact on Russia’s elite than limited tit-for-tat expulsions,” he said.

The shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, also pledged to “hammer” money-laundering, saying that would be a more effective weapon against Vladimir Putin’s regime than expelling diplomats.

He's basically saying what many said from day one of this nightmare. It may well of been the Russian government... an order from the embassy. It likely was but it could also of been carried out by any one of the oligarchs who reside here and therefore, until the investigation reaches a conclusion, I don't think anyone should be making snap decisions.

Cold War is only called 'cold' because its not physical but a Cold War has the potential to become a 'Hot War'.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent. Instead, Britain needs to uphold its laws and its values without reservation. And those should be allied to a foreign policy that uses every opportunity to reduce tensions and conflict wherever possible.

LOL

Corbyn saying this with all the **** thats happening in the Labour party, with people being suspended for thought crimes is ****ing hilarious tbh.

[Denver]

Corbyn would defend Putin.

Anyway Russia wouldn't be able to cope with starting a war because they have pissed off every single country they have no allies

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Corbyn would defend Putin.

Anyway Russia wouldn't be able to cope with starting a war because they have pissed off every single country they have no allies

lol, i would seriously believe that either


thank god for corbyn not having the power then in UK


Russia has an ally in Trump, Putin's little bitch

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

lol, i would seriously believe that either


thank god for corbyn not having the power then in UK


Russia has an ally in Trump, Putin's little bitch

America has already said they are on Britains side