[Tozzie]

if that guy gets a sentence for defending himself and his wife and home then there should be a public outcry for his release. No one has a right to go into ones home without invite and we shouldn't have to live in fear for our own lives. The amount of crimes in the area I live is making me seriously consider investing in CCTV. What a nightmare

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Err TBH Tony Martin is a very different situation - he shot a fleeing boy in the back for one, and more importantly, it was an illegally held shotgun.

A farmer owning a gun? Which he never actually did anything wrong with? Oh noes.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

A farmer owning a gun? Which he never actually did anything wrong with? Oh noes.

It was illegally owned because he had specifically been banned from owning them.

[Ammi]

...Tony Martin wasn’t elderly ...he’s a local-ish guy, from Norfolk...I think he’s in his 70s now but that was all in 1999...as TS said, it was an illegal shotgun and he shot the younger burglar in the back as he was trying to get out through the window...he also shot them both in the legs as they were trying to flea as well..he had apparently ‘bragged’ that he would shoot their heads off or some such thing if any came again onto his property...anyways, he was later diagnosed Aspergers with paranoia tendencies ..so diminished responsibilities.and his sentence was reduced ...


...he was though found in possession of an illegal firearm again only a few years ago, I read...which is a bit of a worry with his Aspergers and paranoid tendencies...

[Ammi]

...the prosecution said he had ‘prepared’ for intruders ..rather than ‘secured’ against them...

[Brother Leon]

He’ll be charged, but very unlikely he’s convicted. I know someone that was in a similar situation, but he had to stand trial for Attempted Murder instead of Murder/Manslaughter as the intruder didn’t die. .

[Northern Monkey]

Good lad.If his wife was upstairs too and one intruder cornered him in the kitchen while the other went up near his misses i can see why he panicked.
If some arseholes broke into my gaff with my misses and kids in i’d stab or beat the **** out of them.

[Cherie]

the burglars family are now saying he didn't deserve to die, and no he didn't and he would be alive if he didn't break into an OAPs house and terrorise them and try to steal their possessions.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Cherie

the burglars family are now saying he didn't deserve to die, and no he didn't and he would be alive if he didn't break into an OAPs house and terrorise them and try to steal their possessions.

The choices we make.
I could say I didn’t deserve to die if i went and tried kidnapping a bear cub with its mum hanging around....

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

the burglars family are now saying he didn't deserve to die, and no he didn't and he would be alive if he didn't break into an OAPs house and terrorise them and try to steal their possessions.

No-one deserves anything, and if you force your way into someone else's home, anything that happens to you is your own fault.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

the burglars family are now saying he didn't deserve to die, and no he didn't and he would be alive if he didn't break into an OAPs house and terrorise them and try to steal their possessions.

Preying elderly and disabled people, scum of the earth

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No-one deserves anything, and if you force your way into someone else's home, anything that happens to you is your own fault.

That's my thoughts there really, it's not that he "deserved to die", like you wouldn't give him the death sentence for it if he had been arrested... but, he made the decision to risk his life when he broke into someone's home so whether or not he "deserved it" is kind of a moot point. He's still responsible for his own death.

Someone who tries to run across a busy motorway "deserves" to die even less than a burglar, but it still isn't the fault of the driver that hits them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's my thoughts there really, it's not that he "deserved to die", like you wouldn't give him the death sentence for it if he had been arrested... but, he made the decision to risk his life when he broke into someone's home so whether or not he "deserved it" is kind of a moot point. He's still responsible for his own death.

Someone who tries to run across a busy motorway "deserves" to die even less than a burglar, but it still isn't the fault of the driver that hits them.

Yeah pretty much. If you're breaking into someones house, a parent with kids upstairs etc don't know what your intentions are, you may just be thinking I'll steal their TV and make my way out or they could be some psycho who's planning on murdering you all in your beds, so what do you do? If my kids are upstairs I'd be making sure that person doesn't get back up again

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah pretty much. If you're breaking into someones house, a parent with kids upstairs etc don't know what your intentions are, you may just be thinking I'll steal their TV and make my way out or they could be some psycho who's planning on murdering you all in your beds, so what do you do? If my kids are upstairs I'd be making sure that person doesn't get back up again

True, the only reason I have a bit of an issue with the Tony Martin case is that it was proven that he shot people who were fleeing... which just doesn't sit well with me at all. It's an execution out of anger, not self-defense.

But if I heard something in the night and went out to find some bloke walking up the stairs, I'd sure as **** be kicking him right back down them and there's a pretty solid wall at the bottom .

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, the only reason I have a bit of an issue with the Tony Martin case is that it was proven that he shot people who were fleeing... which just doesn't sit well with me at all. It's an execution out of anger, not self-defense.

But if I heard something in the night and went out to find some bloke walking up the stairs, I'd sure as **** be kicking him right back down them and there's a pretty solid wall at the bottom .

..yeah he did, Tony Martin..but he was diagnosed as Aspergers as well../..diminished responsibility...that’s not excusing but his reasoning wasn’t of ‘sound mind’ either...they were travellers I believe, he’d been having issues with travellers trespassing for a while ...and there were threats to kill him from the travelling community as well after the death....so it’s a complicated case which can’t be compared to the OP case....

[Sticks]

The Tony Martin case made self defence illegal and decriminalised burglary. At a parole hearing, because Tony Martin said he would do the same again, his parole was denied with the official reason that "People going about their lawful business need to be protected" ergo self defence,is illegal and burglary is a lawful occupation. This from Case Law in the UK

This means this pensioner will be tried for murder and the jury will be required to convict due to case law, as the burglars were about their lawful occupation.

Also if a burglar injures themselves on your property, you can be held liable in any civil case.

If a burglar wants to take your stuff and it is heavy, you may have to assist in carrying it out for them, so they are not injured.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Sticks

If a burglar wants to take your stuff and it is heavy, you may have to assist in carrying it out for them, so they are not injured.

And if a burglar brings along his pet fairies, you may be legally obliged to offer them a small refreshment to ensure they don't become parched.

[Sticks]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

And if a burglar brings along his pet fairies, you may be legally obliged to offer them a small refreshment to ensure they don't become parched.

Exactly!

[AnnieK]

I was told by someone (who said that they had been told by a policeman) that if you do confront a burglar and overpower them by physical means you should make sure they are found in your bedroom (or at least upstairs) as you are less likely to get charged if they are upstairs in your home when you attack them. Don't know how true it is - and don't want to test it out particularly

[Sticks]

I believe there was a case once where an armed robber tried to hold up a sub post office with a knife. There was a struggle and the robber was stabbed to death with his own knife and the sub postmaster was put on trial for murder.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

True, the only reason I have a bit of an issue with the Tony Martin case is that it was proven that he shot people who were fleeing... which just doesn't sit well with me at all. It's an execution out of anger, not self-defense.

But if I heard something in the night and went out to find some bloke walking up the stairs, I'd sure as **** be kicking him right back down them and there's a pretty solid wall at the bottom .

I don't know anything about the Tony Martin case, the one I was talking about, i guess was similar in that he followed the guy out and shot him dead (possibly in the back) but I could still understand why he did it (his gun was legal) There was more of a back story with it, it was a group of travelers who had been harassing him for a while, breaking into his property and terrorising him basically. He had previously reported them and really was at his wits end

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't know anything about the Tony Martin case, the one I was talking about, i guess was similar in that he followed the guy out and shot him dead (possibly in the back) but I could still understand why he did it (his gun was legal) There was more of a back story with it, it was a group of travelers who had been harassing him for a while, breaking into his property and terrorising him basically. He had previously reported them and really was at his wits end

Similar story with Tony Martin he had been broken into many times though the police disputed that claim

[jaxie]

I was stunned by this story the other day. It is incredibly wrong that this poor man should be arrested for murder after two intruders brought the weapon into his home and were attacking him. He had every right to defend himself and his family.

No one deserves to die but if you enter someone's house with a weapon and you end up the one harmed then that's your own fault.

The guy who died comes from a 'family' of criminals who prey on the elderly. Nice.

[arista]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I was stunned by this story the other day. It is incredibly wrong that this poor man should be arrested for murder after two intruders brought the weapon into his home and were attacking him. He had every right to defend himself and his family.

No one deserves to die but if you enter someone's house with a weapon and you end up the one harmed then that's your own fault.

The guy who died comes from a 'family' of criminals who prey on the elderly. Nice.

Hang on
lets see the end result

The Dead Criminal Punk (37 year old H. Vincent)
picks on easy old folk
it is great he is DEAD

He was wanted by Police for another old person break in
his Criminal mate left him in the road
driving off in his Van


This 78 year old is a hero

[chuff me dizzy]

Buy the man a medal as big as a dustbin lid