[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sadly Kirk I also think the problem is so bad in certain areas of London (and other cities, but mainly London) that no amount of "good parenting" is guaranteed to help. Kids hit their teens and get swept up in it all and are lost to any parenting very quickly.

My advice to anyone living in one of these areas who have young kids that are so far protected from it? Would be... Leave. Just leave. If you're living in a deprived area then you can't possibly have any strong economic link to London so move your kids away from the city before it's too late.

Sorry that's just silly I have two boys one still teen, one just out ..and they haven't been swept up in anything any more than 90 per cent of their peers

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Don't underestimate the power of good parenting - one of the best measures for someone being successful in life and avoiding crime is whether or not they have two parents.

That's not to say all parents who stay together are good parents, or that people raised by two parents will always be massively successful and crime-free, but it's still one the best measures we have.

100 per cent

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sadly Kirk I also think the problem is so bad in certain areas of London (and other cities, but mainly London) that no amount of "good parenting" is guaranteed to help. Kids hit their teens and get swept up in it all and are lost to any parenting very quickly.

My advice to anyone living in one of these areas who have young kids that are so far protected from it? Would be... Leave. Just leave. If you're living in a deprived area then you can't possibly have any strong economic link to London so move your kids away from the city before it's too late.

I agree T.S. Once they have reached that certain age you are correct - it is already too late - and that's where PROPER sentencing should come in to force.

By the way, your suggestion about leaving is GREAT advice and though likely to provoke cries of 'economic affordability' from some as a reason why they can't leave, it HAS been done and CAN be done.

I would not think twice if it was me when my kids were younger.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I agree T.S. Once they have reached that certain age you are correct - it is already too late - and that's where PROPER sentencing should come in to force.

By the way, your suggestion about leaving is GREAT advice and though likely to provoke cries of 'economic affordability' from some as a reason why they can't leave, it HAS been done and CAN be done.

I would not think twice if it was me when my kids were younger.

sorry from someone who lives in London (or at least just outside) this is completely hysterical

[Barry.]

Another one? Oh no .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by BBfan2017

Another one? Oh no .

Lucky no one gets stabbed in Scotland eh?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Sorry that's just silly I have two boys one still teen, one just out ..and they haven't been swept up in anything any more than 90 per cent of their peers

I didn't say "all of London" or "all of London and just outside London too" though did I Cherie? I quite clearly stated "certain areas of London". So there's no need to get defensive.

London is massive and has a population roughly the same as the whole of Scotland so of course some of it, or rather most of it, is totally fine for raising kids but certain areas present a huge risk of teenagers being caught up in dangerous situations.

[James]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Glasgow has gang too

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

its not the same

not even close

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Every city is the same pretty much. I love Manchester but lots of violence here too

They showed a statistic on the news the other day which said Manchester and Glasgow have a higher murder rate than London.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I didn't say "all of London" or "all of London and just outside London too" though did I Cherie? I quite clearly stated "certain areas of London". So there's no need to get defensive.

London is massive and has a population roughly the same as the whole of Scotland so of course some of it, or rather most of it, is totally fine for raising kids but certain areas present a huge risk of teenagers being caught up in dangerous situations.

Yes I am aware of the population in London given I live here It's no different to inner Glasgow or inner any other big city in Scotland is it, so exorting everyone to leave inner cities isn't exactly feasible is it?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by James

They showed a statistic on the news the other day which said Manchester and Glasgow have a higher murder rate than London.

Doesn't surprise me, but no one is talking about that.....

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Don't underestimate the power of good parenting - one of the best measures for someone being successful in life and avoiding crime is whether or not they have two parents.

That's not to say all parents who stay together are good parents, or that people raised by two parents will always be massively successful and crime-free, but it's still one the best measures we have.

I personally think this is a prime example of the phrase "correlation does not necessarily imply causation" to be honest. It could be that "having both parents around" helps to stop kids going off the rails. But it could just as likely be down to the fact that factors that lead to single-parent families (I.e. Single girls getting pregnant when not in a relationship, or relationship breakdown) are the same factors that lead to juvenile crime and violence.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yes I am aware of the population in London given I live here It's no different to inner Glasgow or inner any other big city in Scotland is it, so exorting everyone to leave inner cities isn't exactly feasible is it?

I wouldn't raise kids in certain areas of Glasgow either. And there are parts of Edinburgh that I wouldn't even drive through willingly. .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I wouldn't raise kids in certain areas of Glasgow either. And there are parts of Edinburgh that I wouldn't even drive through willingly. .

Fair enough but it's not that simple that people pack up and go, they have families, work and housing so it needs sorting by the government not people upping sticks, I get what you mean but from a practical level it's not feasible

[bitontheslide]

Glasgow was the murder capital of europe for a long time. I grew up and lived there at that time, went to all the popular night spots, never had a problem, never saw a problem. These things tend to be very, very localised. It's not to say there isn't a problem, there is, but not compared to the miles of streets there are in any particular city.

Stop and search would surely improve things. New York has been very tough on crime, zero tolerance has ruled the day and it gets results. Do people have the courage to take the same approach here? I doubt it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Glasgow was the murder capital of europe for a long time. I grew up and lived there at that time, went to all the popular night spots, never had a problem, never saw a problem. These things tend to be very, very localised. It's not to say there isn't a problem, there is, but not compared to the miles of streets there are in any particular city.

Stop and search would surely improve things. New York has been very tough on crime, zero tolerance has ruled the day and it gets results. Do people have the courage to take the same approach here? I doubt it.

LT will be devastated

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Fair enough but it's not that simple that people pack up and go, they have families, work and housing so it needs sorting by the government not people upping sticks, I get what you mean but from a practical level it's not feasible

Family (and friends) is the main tie for most people really... Work and housing not so much (like I said before, chances are if you're a young parent living in one of the problem areas, you're not economically tied to a career in the city).

I know someone who upped and left London as a single mum and getting housing etc. wasn't an issue. It's the moving away from the people and area you know and "starting over alone" thats the hard part for a lot of people, understandably enough.

[Barry.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Lucky no one gets stabbed in Scotland eh?

Glasgow has it share of stabbings.

[michael21]

Originally Posted by Cherie

My son says that as well

I blame the parents

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I personally think this is a prime example of the phrase "correlation does not necessarily imply causation" to be honest. It could be that "having both parents around" helps to stop kids going off the rails. But it could just as likely be down to the fact that factors that lead to single-parent families (I.e. Single girls getting pregnant when not in a relationship, or relationship breakdown) are the same factors that lead to juvenile crime and violence.

They equate to the same thing, and that is children raised by the aforementioned single girls don't end up as well as children with two parents.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They equate to the same thing, and that is children raised by the aforementioned single girls don't end up as well as children with two parents.

Where do I start with that! Many single parents, men and women, bring up their children well and many of those children go on to be successful. Many single parents are not uneducated sixteen 16 year olds but divorced educated women who provide a stable and loving home for their children.

Talk about stereotypes - and you were just trying to undermine another member for allegedly stereotyping Jewish men. Single ‘girls’ indeed - totally sexist remarks.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am hardly going to increase my popularity on here by posting this, but the truth is that this - suddenly newsworthy - phenomenon is both no surprise and far worse than the average man-in-the-street realises.

According to figure from the London Metropolitan Police and New York City Police Department to 'USA Today' magazine, London's murder rate in February 2018 of 15 deaths and 22 in March 2018 SURPASSED New York's for the first time and sadly for me, this WILL continue.

It is SHOCKING to learn from 'USA Today' that in 2017, there were TWICE as many murders in New York City than London but THIS year ALREADY the monthly murder rates are nearly the same.

Do NOT scream for my lynching (I HAVE been known to be CORRECT about a lot of uncomfortable facts on here before) but in my opinion, IMMIGRATION and WEAK Local and National Government - which have ALLOWED vitally important POLICIES to be dictated by Political Correctness INSTEAD of rational NEED - a general DEGENERATION in Society's standards, and a rising number of families, both Immigrant AND Indigenous, where the parents have increasingly poor parenting skills, are ALL key factors behind this rise in knife deaths, murder and violence in general.

'Gangs' have ALWAYS existed in London and other major UK cities, but Immigration has exacerbated the situation because many immigrant youths hail from war-torn and economically deprived countries where 'Life is Tough', 'Survival is Paramount', and 'weapons culture' is more prevalent due to less stringent policing and generations of exposure to violence.

Someone has already mentioned 'Stop and Search' on here, and though 'Stop and Search' WAS being abused by corrupt Police Officers who were misusing their powers to vent their own twisted prejudices, 'Stop and Search' WAS also a MUCH-NEEDED weapon in the fight against rapidly escalating 'Serious Crime' and INSTEAD of our cowardly Government succumbing to pressure from the Liberal/Left PC Lobby and scrapping 'Stop and Search', they SHOULD have instead WEEDLED OUT the corrupt Policemen who were abusing it and ensured that only decent, equitable and mature police carried it out FAIRLY .

This is one HUGE problem which is here to STAY, and though sometimes our young need protecting from THEMSELVES, it is the ADULTS who need EDUCATING if we are to at least CONTAIN this threat to society.

Over the past decades, a lot of Teachers have become more Liberal in their own attitudes towards discipline, but in addition, Political Correctness has seen them STRIPPED of a lot of their powers of AUTHORITY over the children in their care whilst we still impose RESPONSIBILITY for that care upon them, and Responsibility WITHOUT Authority is NEVER going to work.

The result is that children become more 'feral' less disciplined.

We NEED to restore POWERS to our Policemen, Teachers and other Professionals WHILST first diligently SCREENING and VETTING those professionals that they are 'Fit for Purpose', and we need to FORCE ALL parents to be responsible for their children WHILST EDUCATING them in the partly 'Lost Art' of parenting.

Finally, where real measures of Prevention have failed, then anyone found guilty of Murder, knife crime, Gun Crime, or any other type of Violent Crime, SHOULD be DEALT with no regard for any possible 'Back-Lash' from Politically Correct' bodies ONLY Punishment and Deterrent.

I have to agree with this, particularly the bold. In places like Japan, for example, very high discipline and very low crime. And yet the areas, particularly the metros... quite dense... Part of the reason I moved back to the South is because the culture is more "it takes a village mentality" and discipline is still important (none of that environment+social constructionist nonsense).

I think immigration is fine if it's ideologies are fairly compatible, but I don't think that makes those peoples non-negotiable. It can add to our culture instead of rub up against it... but I think that open borders polices are naive, even for the most accepting of people. I think what crime it brings in really depends on how they are being immigrated (for politic reasons is a very bad reason...), so simply just needs thorough screening... those peoples tend to spread to different locales, which I think really helps to speed up the transition process.

Stop & Search isn't as much of an issue here as it is in places where gun laws are more restrictive, more police is always the answer. Totally different culture. People here don't have to be as hysterical about their self-protection I think. It's amazing the difference between places with that culture and not... I think people here take their safety more seriously, actually try to be more self-aware, etc. Not at all hysterical... whereas I think in northeast where I was staying, I heard a lot more complaints and hysteria... the govt/establishment/popular party of the day, it's their fault. They should fix it, it's not my job, etc.

No, no matter what your govt does and the policies it sets, your safety is in your own hands... sadly, crime will always be a part of life. Just a fact. Nothing in life can be guaranteed and while enacting laws helps, it won't stop a smooth criminal... but individually we can all make it more difficult.

Also +1 moving away if you have to because... I moved cross-country twice with virtually no money... so yeah I packed everything in my suitcase the first time @19 and that was all I needed. Material things can always be re-bought... they're not that important in the grand scheme of things.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Don't underestimate the power of good parenting - one of the best measures for someone being successful in life and avoiding crime is whether or not they have two parents.

That's not to say all parents who stay together are good parents, or that people raised by two parents will always be massively successful and crime-free, but it's still one the best measures we have.

Funny that, I was raised with two parents... my single mother and a very strict grandmother. Can't say I really ever wanted for a dad for structure as strict as my early years were... it probably would've been a complete overkill...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

yeah but remember stop and search is evil and horrid and racist, so we can't possibly have that

Weren't there complaints because black people were getting stopped and searched more than white or Asian people?

Here's a link https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....-search/latest

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Weren't there complaints because black people were getting stopped and searched more than white or Asian people?

Here's a link https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures....-search/latest

Catch 22.

The areas of london this is happening are predominantly black or asian areas.

They mustnt have brought it in up in scotland or the numbers would have been better.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Catch 22.

The areas of london this is happening are predominantly black or asian areas.

They mustnt have brought it in up in scotland or the numbers would have been better.

I don't have much an opinion on it tbh as I don't really have much knowledge on the subject.

But I'll take your word for it.