[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Apart from a life of subservience and obedience to an authoritarian state. But I suppose some people live that way anyway and thus wouldn't fear it.

On the right side of the law

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

A fair few people took offense in another thread when I said the best indicator of a successful life is being raised by two parents.

I think people just think about themselves or a n other example of a pal who was brought up with their mum and turned out ok. Of course its as a whole that you refer and not individual examples that prove the rule

[Kizzy]

There's a speech being made now in relation to this, apparently she didn't get the memo... :/

Labour continues to attack the government over the home office leak and Rudd’s admission that she hasn’t read the research.

Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott, said:

“The Tories’ concern about knife crime doesn’t even run so far as providing new money or extra officers to tackle it. What part of the Home Office budget is being raided to fund this initiative? It must not be from elsewhere in the police or security budgets which have already been slashed.

“This morning the Home Secretary claimed to be launching “a fact and evidence-fuelled” strategy, but then admitted she hadn’t even bothered to read the evidence her officials have compiled.

“This looks increasingly like a PR stunt by Amber Rudd designed to grab a good headline. The Tories have slashed police funding and resources, leaving them struggling to cope with rising serious crime. This latest announcement looks like a cover up of their own failures.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-live-updates

https://news.sky.com/story/amber-rud...-cuts-11323837

[LeatherTrumpet]

Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott, said:

“The Tories’ concern about knife crime doesn’t even run so far as providing new money or extra officers to tackle it. What part of the Home Office budget is being raided to fund this initiative? It must not be from elsewhere in the police or security budgets which have already been slashed.

Youtube video

You could not make this stupid clown woman up, she is an embarrassment

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott, said:

“The Tories’ concern about knife crime doesn’t even run so far as providing new money or extra officers to tackle it. What part of the Home Office budget is being raided to fund this initiative? It must not be from elsewhere in the police or security budgets which have already been slashed.

Youtube video

You could not make this stupid clown woman up, she is an embarrassment

that's a very cutting criticism LT

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott, said:

“The Tories’ concern about knife crime doesn’t even run so far as providing new money or extra officers to tackle it. What part of the Home Office budget is being raided to fund this initiative? It must not be from elsewhere in the police or security budgets which have already been slashed.

Youtube video

You could not make this stupid clown woman up, she is an embarrassment

Total nut job !

[Kizzy]

So we're back to mocking Diane Abbot?

[Withano]

Could get more police on the street, but democracy says no

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So we're back to mocking Diane Abbot?

SHE WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FIRST TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PEOPLES HUMAN RIGHTS THE FIRST TIME STOP AND SEARCH GOT CANCELLED.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

SHE WAS PROBABLY ONE OF THE FIRST TO COMPLAIN ABOUT PEOPLES HUMAN RIGHTS THE FIRST TIME STOP AND SEARCH GOT CANCELLED.

Racist cow !!

[Tom4784]

Nope, it's morally wrong and ineffective.

It also represents an attitude I despise, the attitude of eroding and throwing away our rights for a false sense of security.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nope, it's morally wrong and ineffective.

It also represents an attitude I despise, the attitude of eroding and throwing away our rights for a false sense of security.

It is neither morally wrong or ineffective. If is saves one life it is worth it.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It is neither morally wrong or ineffective. If is saves one life it is worth it.

My thoughts too ,protect the innocent ......sod the criminals

[AnnieK]

I'm not a fan of this concept. If the police have reason to stop and search from a report or something I get that - but how can police decide if someone looks dodgy? Or would they stop everyone?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It is neither morally wrong or ineffective. If is saves one life it is worth it.

It is ineffective, look it up. There's plenty of studies that have come to the same conclusion

All Stop and Search does is erode people's rights and it's an insult to those that have died to preserve our rights. Worst of all, it's a false sense of security.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It is ineffective, look it up. There's plenty of studies that have come to the same conclusion

Okay, I looked it up. Overall, it suggests that higher rates of stop and search (under any power) were associated with lower than expected rates of crime in the following week or month. While this particular police study admits the results were inconsistent, I'd be interested to see what studies you've been looking at?

[Gstar]

Yes and their excuse for not doing so is stupid (something along the lines of racism/racial profiling)

I’m black and I don’t mind being searched every day if it involves ‘possibly’ preventing someone being murdered

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Germyle

Yes and their excuse for not doing so is stupid (something along the lines of racism/racial profiling)

I’m black and I don’t mind being searched every day if it involves ‘possibly’ preventing someone being murdered

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Germyle

I’m black and I don’t mind being searched every day if it involves ‘possibly’ preventing someone being murdered

I highly, highly doubt that if you were searched every day for a year you would still be saying that. If you genuinely don't mind being stopped and harassed by law enforcement whilst going about your day, then that's... Err... Great, I guess, but I don't think you speak for most people who actually do value their liberty, autonomy and right to privacy.

Here's a question for the #metoo generation;

Its not just teenage males who are involved in violent crime, and only stop and searching males would be profiling anyway. So... Are we OK with male police officers having the legal right to stop and "pat down" any teenage girl they want to in the street? Do we expect teenage girls to be OK with these intrusive searches "because it might save lives"?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I highly, highly doubt that if you were searched every day for a year you would still be saying that. If you genuinely don't mind being stopped and harassed by law enforcement whilst going about your day, then that's... Err... Great, I guess, but I don't think you speak for most people who actually do value their liberty, autonomy and right to privacy.

Here's a question for the #metoo generation;

Its not just teenage males who are involved in violent crime, and only stop and searching males would be profiling anyway. So... Are we OK with male police officers having the legal right to stop and "pat down" any teenage girl they want to in the street? Do we expect teenage girls to be OK with these intrusive searches "because it might save lives"?

I think a female officer would have to do that, much the same as at the airport, I have been patted down more times then I care to count, I could walk through naked and the alarms would go off

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Germyle

Yes and their excuse for not doing so is stupid (something along the lines of racism/racial profiling)

I’m black and I don’t mind being searched every day if it involves ‘possibly’ preventing someone being murdered

I have heard a lot of voices from the communities affected saying the same thing, yet those voice are lost ...why? why are people who are not living in these communities not having their voices heard and why are they being overridden by people who will never by affected ..it's all wrong

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think a female officer would have to do that, much the same as at the airport, I have been patted down more times then I care to count, I could walk through naked and the alarms would go off

Me too Cherie, I think I have metal bones or something. I had to go into the full body scanner thing last time I flew, I wanted to see the image but it just gave me a green light.

However, you expect that kind of thing at an airport, walking down the street I would be highly pissed off if I was deemed dodgy looking and required a stop and search without due reason.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Me too Cherie, I think I have metal bones or something. I had to go into the full body scanner thing last time I flew, I wanted to see the image but it just gave me a green light.

However, you expect that kind of thing at an airport, walking down the street I would be highly pissed off if I was deemed dodgy looking and required a stop and search without due reason.

How is it any different to stopping people for drink driving though, we go to Spain a lot and police are always carrying out stops, (though in Spain they are really looking to fine you for something to put money in the coffers), so what is the answer, we put more police on the streets but with no powers.. I think we do need more community police but even that is not enough in some areas.

[Tom4784]

The government needs to stop stripping money away from public services, random checks are just that, random (although not really which harms ANY potential effectiveness of it even more)

Instead of calling for this stop gap measure, you should all be calling for more funds for the police so they can maintain a police presence on the streets without having to make up for a lack of presence with pointless stop and searches which just erode our rights.

More police on the street will help more than targeting black people for stop and searches ever would.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I think a female officer would have to do that, much the same as at the airport, I have been patted down more times then I care to count, I could walk through naked and the alarms would go off

Right; but then do we always have to ensure that officers work in mixed-sex pairs? If two male officers suspect a female is armed, do they overlook it? Can a female officer search a male?

And most importantly - WHY would it have to be a female officer for girls. The answer is an obvious one; "because being body searched is a huge invasion of personal space and privacy".

And that's why it shouldn't ever be accepted as a normal part of living in a city.