[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Or you're confusing opportunistic rioters for protesters in order to push your crusade against the left, that's more likely.

So no such thing as opportunistic right-wing rioters then. Is isn’t me being unbalanced in my comments on rioters and only making negative comments on so-called right-wing rioters. Apparently those of the left-wing variety don’t exist. Sometimes a bit of balance needs injecting into such a scenario. Talking of political crusades ...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

So no such thing as opportunistic right-wing rioters then. Is isn’t me being unbalanced in my comments on rioters and only making negative comments on so-called right-wing rioters. Apparently those of the left-wing variety don’t exist. Sometimes a bit of balance needs injecting into such a scenario. Talking of political crusades ...

So you're taking something I have not said and shoving it down my throat. This seems like a reasonable approach to discussion.....

Is there any point of me saying anything if you're just gonna reply to whatever you imagined I've said?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

So you're taking something I have not said and shoving it down my throat. This seems like a reasonable approach to discussion.....

Is there any point of me saying anything if you're just gonna reply to whatever you imagined I've said?

It was what you were suggesting as you have only acknowledged the existence of those on the left. You always speak as though rioters, opportunistic or otherwise, are only a right-wing issue. Both have their troublemakers.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It was what you were suggesting as you have only acknowledged the existence of those on the left. You always speak as though rioters, opportunistic or otherwise, are only a right-wing issue. Both have their troublemakers.

Actually you are completely wrong. I've said that most rioters are opportunistic, I never actually specifically said anything about the left and I didn't say it didn't apply to the right either.

Once again, you've responded, not to what I actually wrote but what you imagined I wrote. I'm getting quite tired of it, you need to work on knowing the difference between what people actually write and mean and what you want them to mean because your entire argument in this thread rests on your incorrect assumption.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Actually you are completely wrong. I've said that most rioters are opportunistic, I never actually specifically said anything about the left and I didn't say it didn't apply to the right either.

Once again, you've responded, not to what I actually wrote but what you imagined I wrote. I'm getting quite tired of it, you need to work on knowing the difference between what people actually write and mean and what you want them to mean because your entire argument in this thread rests on your incorrect assumption.

Not imagined - it is called reading between the lines of what is said, what is not said and what is suggested. As a mod on this site for many years you are well aware of that as you are pretty good at misinterpreting other peoples’ words when it suits. Pot and kettle over and over again. Same ol, same ol.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Not imagined - it is called reading between the lines of what is said, what is not said and what is suggested. As a mod on this site for many years you are well aware of that as you are pretty good at misinterpreting other peoples’ words when it suits. Pot and kettle over and over again. Same ol, same ol.

There's reading between the lines and then there's making up what I've said to suit your argument. You're guilty of the latter.

And of course you include a personal attack. Can't just admit you're wrong, can you?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

And you can't choose to ignore how democracy can be corrupted either nor can you ignore Russia's interference in the election itself but here you are doing exactly that.

So thrilled by your ability to read my mind on what you think I ignore. Very talented of you. Do you juggle as well?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's reading between the lines and then there's making up what I've said to suit your argument. You're guilty of the latter.

And of course you include a personal attack. Can't just admit you're wrong, can you?

Coz I’m not! Funny that I have just read a post about you attempting to read peoples’ minds and putting words in mouths.. A pattern and a long-standing one at that.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

You just know some childish morons will start rioting ...

"A politician I don't like is coming to the country, oh noes"

Yes, because he's simply a politician they don't like.

He's not the POTUS and having ramifications across the world or anything silly like that.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by jaxie

So thrilled by your ability to read my mind on what you think I ignore. Very talented of you. Do you juggle as well?

You made out that it was democracy that elected Trump whilst failing to mention the dubious aspects of the election or the fact that the democratic process is not immune to being corrupted even if someone was elected.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Coz I’m not! Funny that I have just read a post about you attempting to read peoples’ minds and putting words in mouths.. A pattern and a long-standing one at that.

Aw, thank you for admitting you were wrong, I appreciate it.

[Toy Soldier]

SD's is a dumpster fire today

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You made out that it was democracy that elected Trump whilst failing to mention the dubious aspects of the election or the fact that the democratic process is not immune to being corrupted even if someone was elected.



Aw, thank you for admitting you were wrong, I appreciate it.

Always knew you were totally deluded.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Always knew you were totally deluded.

Hey, I'm just reading between the lines, I learned from the master after all.

Life is pretty great when you delude yourself into reading things that aren't there, thanks for teaching me that.

Oh and thank you for telling me that I'm your favourite mod, it's always nice to be appreciated

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Hey, I'm just reading between the lines, I learned from the master after all.

Life is pretty great when you delude yourself into reading things that aren't there, thanks for teaching me that.

Oh and thank you for telling me that I'm your favourite mod, it's always nice to be appreciated

I’m sure you’re everyones favourite mod!

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The US was officially downgraded from a "full democracy" to a "flawed democracy" so... It was a flawed democracy that elected trump. So yes, you can choose to believe that that result was undemocratic and still believe in working democracies.

The US is Republic, not a "flawed" Democracy. Democracy would allow mob rule whereas a Republic protects minority representation. Ironically, a system that its detractors would be fawning over if they were the majority in the fly-over states...

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I’m sure you’re everyones favourite mod!

I am, aren't I?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

The US is Republic, not a "flawed" Democracy. Democracy would allow mob rule whereas a Republic protects minority representation. Ironically, a system that its detractors would be fawning over if they were the majority in the fly-over states...

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

A Republic is a type of Democracy .

The part in bold is a large part of what makes it flawed.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Maru

The US is Republic, not a "flawed" Democracy. Democracy would allow mob rule whereas a Republic protects minority representation. Ironically, a system that its detractors would be fawning over if they were the majority in the fly-over states...

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Democracy_vs_Republic

A flawed democracy is what it is though. This is about democratic systems, and they have been downgraded for the USA

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8195121.html

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

A Republic is a type of Democracy .

The part in bold is a large part of what makes it flawed.

The frustration is a wonderful sign that it's working. Both parties have authoritative streaks that should be quelled. For example, Trump is frustrated that he can't light up the system with executive orders like a Christmas tree. Democrats are unhappy they can't abolish the Republicans outright and establish a full-fledged democracy for themselves with full Federal oversight. It's designed that way to discourage authorianism and to protect our individual rights.

[Maru]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

A flawed democracy is what it is though. This is about democratic systems, and they have been downgraded for the USA

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8195121.html

I think foreign media often misses the mark when it tries to make assumptions about the tensions in our culture. Our founding philosophy was never meant to place high trust in institutions. I would say in fact, usually the opposite is encouraged in our culture. We are a country of rebels, through and through. The Constitution is where we derive our most basic individual rights, however much the underlying system may change overtime and become unrecognizeable from one another, that's supposed to be the glue to keep it's all working as intended, even when we have had major strife (i.e. Civil Rights era, Civil War, etc...)

If there are perceived elements in govt or culture trying to take the bull by the horns and reign in our system in such a way to undermine our Constitution's inalienable rights, then our culture was almost certainly going to fall against those expectations and push back against its own institutions... that's not a sign of erosion of our system, in my eyes, as the goal of an easy peace and an efficient govt was never the promise of our Founders. They designed the system in such a way that they had the foresight that any institution, no matter how well designed it is or how high it's intentions may be will almost always fall prey to corruption/tyranny. Their expectation was that citizens alone were the only ones who could be held responsible for protecting their own rights, which is why we have the kind of democracy we have.. because the idea of a incorruptible system is an illusion, which is why our relationship individual rights are so well-connected to our country's pulse and why so people are so attached to our Constitution... especially amendments like 1A and 2A. 2A is meant to protect 1A, because we can always uprise, whereas without 2A, 1A could be taken in a heartbeat...

It's never been solely about which person's rhetoric is more inflammatory and the pursuit of the perfect system. It's a bit more complicated than all that... I think all our generations have gone through some sort of growing pains, as it relates to this, as they wonder why can't it be so easy to just elect the perfect Marvel dream team to solve all our pains and ails... that was never the aspiration of our Founders and the younguns only need to read into our history to learn that the responsibilities fall on them and not our institutions to solve their issues. (edit x2)

[bitontheslide]

Hi Maru, I appreciate your thoughts and explanations, but these are metrics used to measure things. You may not agree with their methods of measurement, but they sit there as a method of comparing one country against another etc. Looking from the outside I have seen a big change in the USA in recent times, it is no longer a bench mark that others would aspire to, far from it. I think that manifests itself with these metrics.

The current Trump administration are hell bent on bringing down the establishment. Lying to the people they are supposed to represent. Trying to dictate that the absurd be the new gold standard. If this group weren't in power it would be completely different, but they are in power and so very much do threaten democratic values.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I am, aren't I?

I'm sure you would like to be.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I'm sure you would like to be.

Aw, thank you for all your compliments.

(I can see why you like to 'read between the lines' ignoring what's been written to make up your own version of what's been said is addictive!)

[LeatherTrumpet]

I hope he comes home to the motherland

play a bit of golf too

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I hope he comes home to the motherland

play a bit of golf too

It's about time he pays a visit to his boss tbh.