[kirklancaster]

We ALL know that this vile, fanatical Hate-Spreader is now back behind bars:



TOMMY ROBINSON SENTENCED 13 MONTHS FOR REPORTING ON PEDOPHILE GROOMING TRIAL

But what a difference in the way that this 'Politically-Correct Softened, Islam-Appeasing, Human-Rights-Act Fearful Government TREATS an Extreme Right-Wing Vile, Hate-Spreading Fanatic such as Robinson to the way it has treated Extreme Muslim, Vile, Hate-Spreading Fanatics such as Hate-Preacher Abu Hamza:



The Fanatic who laughed at this country for 10 years:
By JAMES SLACK FOR THE DAILY MAIL

For more than a decade, Abu Hamza ruthlessly exploited the British legal system and the welfare state.

The failure of the authorities to take swifter action to stop him spreading his message of Islamist hatred also allowed countless terror suspects to be radicalised on the streets of North London.

Here, Home Affairs Editor JAMES SLACK examines the cost of allowing the hook-handed preacher to treat the British public with utter contempt for so long.

Abu Hamza: Exploited every opportunity to exploit the legal system

‘DEAL’ THAT LET POLICE IGNORE HAMZA’S HATE
Perhaps the most damning charge against the State is that the police and security services deliberately ignored the fanatic’s activities.

By the late 1990s, he was well-known to security officials and had been firmly linked to a terrorist kidnapping plot that led to the deaths of three British tourists and an Australian in the Yemen. Overall, he is said to have had nine meetings with MI5 and Special Branch agents, one at Scotland Yard, between 1997 and 2004.

He was even arrested in 1999 over the Yemen bomb plot and videos of his sermons were seized. But, incredibly, he was not charged with any offence – despite the tapes later forming part of his successful 2006 prosecution for inciting murder. It later emerged the tapes had not been passed to the Crown Prosecution Service by the police.

It was alleged there had been a ‘covenant of security’ forged between the security agencies and radical Islamists in the UK. The deal allowed radical clerics to orchestrate and encourage Islamist attacks abroad. In return, the brainwashing of young home-grown Muslims here was tolerated by the secret services in the hope there would be no attacks on targets in Britain.

EUROPE AND THE ENDLESS APPEALS
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg: Judges there have delayed the removal of countless terror suspects over the years
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg: Judges there have delayed the removal of countless terror suspects over the years

Hamza has exploited every possible opportunity to play the legal system. He appealed against his extradition to the US on terror charges in magistrates court and the High Court – which said the case for his removal was ‘unassailable’.

He also tried to take his legally aided fight to the House of Lords but was refused permission. In 2008, he headed for Strasbourg, which has delayed the removal of countless terror suspects over the years, to argue it would be a breach of his human rights for the US to lock him up for 50 years on charges of running a terror training camp.

The European Court of Human Rights spent an incredible four years – at a cost of at least £1million to the taxpayer – deliberating on the case.

It finally rejected his last appeal on Monday evening. Hamza also appealed against his conviction in the British courts for incitement to murder. This was swiftly dismissed in November 2006.

LEGAL AID
The true extent of Hamza’s milking of the legal aid system remains unclear – but a single solicitor earned almost £500,000 in fees just to act for the fanatic. Arani and Co received the sums between 2000 and last year.

Official estimates suggest the cost of his trial for incitement to murder was at last £1 million, when barrister and other fees were included. The notoriety achieved by Muddassar Arani from representing Hamza has made her the solicitor of choice for a string of terror suspects.

The firm’s clients also include Dhiren Barot, who planned to use limousines for radioactive explosions, and Muktar Said Ibrahim and Yassin Omar, who took part in the failed July 21 bomb plot.

Last year, it received almost £1million in legal aid. In one month alone, January this year, Miss Arani billed £356,048, and in December last year she charged £204,501.

HOUSE AND BENEFITS


Recently renovated: Hamza's £600,000 five-bedroom council house in Shepherd's Bush, West London

The radical preacher’s family has enjoyed huge benefit payments worth £650-a-week over the past decade, including a £600,000 five-bedroom council house in Shepherd’s Bush, West London, for his wife and their seven children.

The property, in the same street as one once owned by ex-Cabinet minister John Hutton, was given a £25,000 makeover by the council, including an £8,500 bathroom, a £13,500 kitchen, a new heating system and a complete redecoration. A plumber working on the house was told not to look at Hamza’s wife after she complained that he had seen her without her burka.

The family were allowed to keep the State hand-outs after Hamza was convicted in 2006 because all of the children were born in Britain.

The Taxpayers’ Alliance estimates Hamza has cost Britain at least £2.75million in welfare payments, council housing and legal costs.

Unknown to the authorities, Hamza bought a house for £220,000 cash in Greenford, West London, while in prison as a buy-to-let investment. It was later seized and sold for £280,000 to help fund part of his mammoth legal aid bill.

MOCKING THE TAXPAYER FROM BEHIND BARS
Even when he was behind bars, Hamza continued to cost the public a fortune.

At a cost of £650, plumbers spent two days replacing the standard twist taps in his cell at Belmarsh high-security prison with new chrome lever ones which he could work with his hook hand.

The authorities had two cells suitable for him available at any one time so he would not be inconvenienced during any searches to look for banned items such as mobile phone sim cards. The cost of keeping him locked up for eight years since 2004 is an estimated £500,000.

Yet, despite the extraordinary security, Hamza was still able to preach his sermons of hate to fellow inmates – ranting bile down the water pipes that connect to neighbouring cells.

Every effort was made not to offend the cleric. The home affairs select committee visited him inside jail to get his views on radicalisation. Astonishingly, the convicted terrorist was referred to as ‘Mr Abu Hamza’ throughout their report.

HAMZA’S HUMAN RIGHT TO BE BRITISH
Hamza, who arrived in Britain in 1979 from Egypt, was granted indefinite leave to remain in 1982 after marrying British-born Valerie Traverso.

The couple soon divorced, but the path was clear for Hamza to gain a passport from a country he despised and derided as a ‘toilet’, in 1986.

Attempts to then strip him of the document ended in expensive failure. David Blunkett said in 2003 that allowing the fanatic to keep his passport would ‘seriously prejudice’ the UK’s interests.

In 2010, a judge ruled it would be a breach of his human rights to take it away on the grounds it would leave Hamza – who had given-up his Egyptian nationality – stateless. The decision made it impossible to send the terrorist back to Egypt.

TERRIFYING LEGACY OF FINSBURY PARK MOSQUE
Hamza began spouting his messages of hate shortly after taking charge of the Finsbury Park mosque, in North London, in 1997.

It’s almost impossible to calculate the harm which was caused by the authorities allowing him to disseminate his poisonous beliefs.



Sermons of hate: Hamza leads worshippers outside the Finsbury Park Mosque

Those who attended the mosque included July 7 suicide bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer and Jermaine Lindsay. Four Al Qaeda-trained terrorists who failed in major plots also ‘came under his spell’ – shoe-bomber Richard Reid Sajid Badat, police killer and ricin poison plotter Kamal Bourgass and the ‘20th’ September 11 hijacker, Zacharias Moussaoui.

In all, 2,000 radicals are thought to have passed through its doors. In April 2002, Hamza was formally suspended from his position at the mosque by the Charity Commission for his inflammatory speeches.

Yet, scandalously, he was allowed to carry on his rants from the street outside. At a cost of tens of thousands of pounds, officers in London were taken off other duties to police the regular Friday events.

THE HEALTH SERVICE
The cleric has cost the taxpayer tens of thousands of pounds in healthcare since returning from Afghanistan in the mid-1990s missing two arms and one eye.

He claims he suffered the injuries while working on a project to clear landmines.

Shortly after his conviction in 2006, he required a £10,000 operation on the NHS on his arm stumps. Doctors told prison staff that he was in constant pain and should be treated as quickly as possible.

He also used his alleged ill-health to delay the legal proceedings against him.

A hearing at the Old Bailey was cancelled after Hamza claimed putting on shoes would hurt his feet. He insisted his toenails had grown too long for conventional shoes, forcing the hearing to be rescheduled at a cost of £10,000.


If Tommy Robinson can't resist the urge to peddle his vile hatred, and he wants to remain free, then maybe he should get radicalised by one of a thousand eager jihadists who are still spreading their hatred from behind bars - If THEY DON'T MURDER HIM FIRST while the Prison Authorities turn-a-blind-eye.

[Oliver_W]

The Spooks should just see to it that people like Hamza "accidentally" have terrible fatal accidents.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

We ALL know that this vile, fanatical Hate-Spreader is now back behind bars:



TOMMY ROBINSON SENTENCED 13 MONTHS FOR REPORTING ON PEDOPHILE GROOMING TRIAL

But what a difference in the way that this 'Politically-Correct Softened, Islam-Appeasing, Human-Rights-Act Fearful Government TREATS an Extreme Right-Wing Vile, Hate-Spreading Fanatic such as Robinson to the way it has treated Extreme Muslim, Vile, Hate-Spreading Fanatics such as Hate-Preacher Abu Hamza:



The Fanatic who laughed at this country for 10 years:
By JAMES SLACK FOR THE DAILY MAIL

For more than a decade, Abu Hamza ruthlessly exploited the British legal system and the welfare state.

The failure of the authorities to take swifter action to stop him spreading his message of Islamist hatred also allowed countless terror suspects to be radicalised on the streets of North London.

Here, Home Affairs Editor JAMES SLACK examines the cost of allowing the hook-handed preacher to treat the British public with utter contempt for so long.

Abu Hamza: Exploited every opportunity to exploit the legal system

‘DEAL’ THAT LET POLICE IGNORE HAMZA’S HATE
Perhaps the most damning charge against the State is that the police and security services deliberately ignored the fanatic’s activities.

By the late 1990s, he was well-known to security officials and had been firmly linked to a terrorist kidnapping plot that led to the deaths of three British tourists and an Australian in the Yemen. Overall, he is said to have had nine meetings with MI5 and Special Branch agents, one at Scotland Yard, between 1997 and 2004.

He was even arrested in 1999 over the Yemen bomb plot and videos of his sermons were seized. But, incredibly, he was not charged with any offence – despite the tapes later forming part of his successful 2006 prosecution for inciting murder. It later emerged the tapes had not been passed to the Crown Prosecution Service by the police.

It was alleged there had been a ‘covenant of security’ forged between the security agencies and radical Islamists in the UK. The deal allowed radical clerics to orchestrate and encourage Islamist attacks abroad. In return, the brainwashing of young home-grown Muslims here was tolerated by the secret services in the hope there would be no attacks on targets in Britain.

EUROPE AND THE ENDLESS APPEALS
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg: Judges there have delayed the removal of countless terror suspects over the years
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg: Judges there have delayed the removal of countless terror suspects over the years

Hamza has exploited every possible opportunity to play the legal system. He appealed against his extradition to the US on terror charges in magistrates court and the High Court – which said the case for his removal was ‘unassailable’.

He also tried to take his legally aided fight to the House of Lords but was refused permission. In 2008, he headed for Strasbourg, which has delayed the removal of countless terror suspects over the years, to argue it would be a breach of his human rights for the US to lock him up for 50 years on charges of running a terror training camp.

The European Court of Human Rights spent an incredible four years – at a cost of at least £1million to the taxpayer – deliberating on the case.

It finally rejected his last appeal on Monday evening. Hamza also appealed against his conviction in the British courts for incitement to murder. This was swiftly dismissed in November 2006.

LEGAL AID
The true extent of Hamza’s milking of the legal aid system remains unclear – but a single solicitor earned almost £500,000 in fees just to act for the fanatic. Arani and Co received the sums between 2000 and last year.

Official estimates suggest the cost of his trial for incitement to murder was at last £1 million, when barrister and other fees were included. The notoriety achieved by Muddassar Arani from representing Hamza has made her the solicitor of choice for a string of terror suspects.

The firm’s clients also include Dhiren Barot, who planned to use limousines for radioactive explosions, and Muktar Said Ibrahim and Yassin Omar, who took part in the failed July 21 bomb plot.

Last year, it received almost £1million in legal aid. In one month alone, January this year, Miss Arani billed £356,048, and in December last year she charged £204,501.

HOUSE AND BENEFITS


Recently renovated: Hamza's £600,000 five-bedroom council house in Shepherd's Bush, West London

The radical preacher’s family has enjoyed huge benefit payments worth £650-a-week over the past decade, including a £600,000 five-bedroom council house in Shepherd’s Bush, West London, for his wife and their seven children.

The property, in the same street as one once owned by ex-Cabinet minister John Hutton, was given a £25,000 makeover by the council, including an £8,500 bathroom, a £13,500 kitchen, a new heating system and a complete redecoration. A plumber working on the house was told not to look at Hamza’s wife after she complained that he had seen her without her burka.

The family were allowed to keep the State hand-outs after Hamza was convicted in 2006 because all of the children were born in Britain.

The Taxpayers’ Alliance estimates Hamza has cost Britain at least £2.75million in welfare payments, council housing and legal costs.

Unknown to the authorities, Hamza bought a house for £220,000 cash in Greenford, West London, while in prison as a buy-to-let investment. It was later seized and sold for £280,000 to help fund part of his mammoth legal aid bill.

MOCKING THE TAXPAYER FROM BEHIND BARS
Even when he was behind bars, Hamza continued to cost the public a fortune.

At a cost of £650, plumbers spent two days replacing the standard twist taps in his cell at Belmarsh high-security prison with new chrome lever ones which he could work with his hook hand.

The authorities had two cells suitable for him available at any one time so he would not be inconvenienced during any searches to look for banned items such as mobile phone sim cards. The cost of keeping him locked up for eight years since 2004 is an estimated £500,000.

Yet, despite the extraordinary security, Hamza was still able to preach his sermons of hate to fellow inmates – ranting bile down the water pipes that connect to neighbouring cells.

Every effort was made not to offend the cleric. The home affairs select committee visited him inside jail to get his views on radicalisation. Astonishingly, the convicted terrorist was referred to as ‘Mr Abu Hamza’ throughout their report.

HAMZA’S HUMAN RIGHT TO BE BRITISH
Hamza, who arrived in Britain in 1979 from Egypt, was granted indefinite leave to remain in 1982 after marrying British-born Valerie Traverso.

The couple soon divorced, but the path was clear for Hamza to gain a passport from a country he despised and derided as a ‘toilet’, in 1986.

Attempts to then strip him of the document ended in expensive failure. David Blunkett said in 2003 that allowing the fanatic to keep his passport would ‘seriously prejudice’ the UK’s interests.

In 2010, a judge ruled it would be a breach of his human rights to take it away on the grounds it would leave Hamza – who had given-up his Egyptian nationality – stateless. The decision made it impossible to send the terrorist back to Egypt.

TERRIFYING LEGACY OF FINSBURY PARK MOSQUE
Hamza began spouting his messages of hate shortly after taking charge of the Finsbury Park mosque, in North London, in 1997.

It’s almost impossible to calculate the harm which was caused by the authorities allowing him to disseminate his poisonous beliefs.



Sermons of hate: Hamza leads worshippers outside the Finsbury Park Mosque

Those who attended the mosque included July 7 suicide bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan, Shehzad Tanweer and Jermaine Lindsay. Four Al Qaeda-trained terrorists who failed in major plots also ‘came under his spell’ – shoe-bomber Richard Reid Sajid Badat, police killer and ricin poison plotter Kamal Bourgass and the ‘20th’ September 11 hijacker, Zacharias Moussaoui.

In all, 2,000 radicals are thought to have passed through its doors. In April 2002, Hamza was formally suspended from his position at the mosque by the Charity Commission for his inflammatory speeches.

Yet, scandalously, he was allowed to carry on his rants from the street outside. At a cost of tens of thousands of pounds, officers in London were taken off other duties to police the regular Friday events.

THE HEALTH SERVICE
The cleric has cost the taxpayer tens of thousands of pounds in healthcare since returning from Afghanistan in the mid-1990s missing two arms and one eye.

He claims he suffered the injuries while working on a project to clear landmines.

Shortly after his conviction in 2006, he required a £10,000 operation on the NHS on his arm stumps. Doctors told prison staff that he was in constant pain and should be treated as quickly as possible.

He also used his alleged ill-health to delay the legal proceedings against him.

A hearing at the Old Bailey was cancelled after Hamza claimed putting on shoes would hurt his feet. He insisted his toenails had grown too long for conventional shoes, forcing the hearing to be rescheduled at a cost of £10,000.


If Tommy Robinson can't resist the urge to peddle his vile hatred, and he wants to remain free, then maybe he should get radicalised by one of a thousand eager jihadists who are still spreading their hatred from behind bars - If THEY DON'T MURDER HIM FIRST while the Prison Authorities turn-a-blind-eye.

I agree Kirk - there is a total disparity between how Robinson has been treated and the ISIS scumbags who are far, far worse than him. There is something very wrong with this country and the way it is bowing down to these ridiculous double standards.

The prejudice here is against anyone who refuses to conform to the far left madness sweeping through the West and it is sickening. So many people are just sheep and follow the crowd rather than have the courage to say enough is enough. The West is destroying itself with its OTT PC fixation in my opinion.

[Cherie]

Extremists should be dealt with equally, it just doesn't happen in this country, both sides get dealt with differently depending on the issue, it shouldn't be that difficult to apply the law equally but it appears to be

[Northern Monkey]

God knows how Hamza was allowed to live for so long.He was a direct threat to the security of Britain and lives of its citizens.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Extremists should be dealt with equally, it just doesn't happen in this country, both sides get dealt with differently depending on the issue, it shouldn't be that difficult to apply the law equally but it appears to be

It’s so blatant Cherie - what is wrong with this country! I can only assume that either people are generally weak and/or that the ambition and image of many people, particularly those in positions of power, is their main focus and therefore clouds their judgement.

[smudgie]

Robinson has been dealt with by the law of the land.
Hamza was protected by his human rights, the law of the land didn’t apply, we had to go along with whatever some other outside influences deemed correct.

[Maru]

I'm constantly grateful we don't really have many adjacent neighbors in the US. The Mexican people are lovely and Canada is far from an undesirable neighbor. Most other immigrants have to travel by plane... and PC doesn't seem to have gone as far as it has in the UK, at least judging from my time on TiBB (and very little else)... but that could all change in a heartbeat if we're not careful about who we elect.

I was reading yesterday that many of the candidates that are winning democratic primaries are far-left compared to the incumbents. And this is a bad sign to some for the Democratic party in general... because that may mean they are "unelectable" in the general election. But then again, many people thought the same of Trump... that because he said and did all these things that would normally make someone unelectable, and he proved what used to be the status quo to be wrong...

I think all due to ppl finally fighting PC... On the plus side, it's allowed people like Dana Roem to be able to be elected into govt positions... the very first openly transgender.

I think all types of terrorists see PC culture as our Achilles heel... because it's made it easier to get the public to turn in on itself and even go against it's own values. Ever since 9/11, they've skillfully and willfully exploited this pathway...

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Maru

I'm constantly grateful we don't really have many adjacent neighbors in the US. The Mexican people are lovely and Canada is far from an undesirable neighbor. Most other immigrants have to travel by plane... and PC doesn't seem to have gone as far as it has in the UK, at least judging from my time on TiBB (and very little else)... but that could all change in a heartbeat if we're not careful about who we elect.

I was reading yesterday that many of the candidates that are winning democratic primaries are far-left compared to the incumbents. And this is a bad sign to some for the Democratic party in general... because that may mean they are "unelectable" in the general election. But then again, many people thought the same of Trump... that because he said and did all these things that would normally make someone unelectable, and he proved what used to be the status quo to be wrong...

I think all due to ppl finally fighting PC... On the plus side, it's allowed people like Dana Roem to be able to be elected into govt positions... the very first openly transgender.

I think all types of terrorists see PC culture as our Achilles heel... because it's made it easier to get the public to turn in on itself and even go against it's own values. Ever since 9/11, they've skillfully and willfully exploited this pathway...

Spot on Maru!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Maru

I'm constantly grateful we don't really have many adjacent neighbors in the US. The Mexican people are lovely and Canada is far from an undesirable neighbor. Most other immigrants have to travel by plane... and PC doesn't seem to have gone as far as it has in the UK, at least judging from my time on TiBB (and very little else)... but that could all change in a heartbeat if we're not careful about who we elect.

I was reading yesterday that many of the candidates that are winning democratic primaries are far-left compared to the incumbents. And this is a bad sign to some for the Democratic party in general... because that may mean they are "unelectable" in the general election. But then again, many people thought the same of Trump... that because he said and did all these things that would normally make someone unelectable, and he proved what used to be the status quo to be wrong...

I think all due to ppl finally fighting PC... On the plus side, it's allowed people like Dana Roem to be able to be elected into govt positions... the very first openly transgender.

I think all types of terrorists see PC culture as our Achilles heel... because it's made it easier to get the public to turn in on itself and even go against it's own values. Ever since 9/11, they've skillfully and willfully exploited this pathway...

Another brilliantly intuitive post which is - as Brillo said - SPOT ON.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Maru

I'm constantly grateful we don't really have many adjacent neighbors in the US. The Mexican people are lovely and Canada is far from an undesirable neighbor. Most other immigrants have to travel by plane... and PC doesn't seem to have gone as far as it has in the UK, at least judging from my time on TiBB (and very little else)... but that could all change in a heartbeat if we're not careful about who we elect.

Violent crime in general stats in the US are 300%+ higher than the UK. Murder rates in the US are 1600% of the UK's. Yes, that's two zeros, as in sixteen times higher.

I'm just saying Maru. Maybe look at some of the actual stats rather than listening to Trump propaganda and TiBB hysteria. The UK is a much safer country than the United States by literally every single measure there is .

[Maru]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Violent crime in general stats in the US are 300%+ higher than the UK. Murder rates in the US are 1600% of the UK's. Yes, that's two zeros, as in sixteen times higher.

I'm just saying Maru. Maybe look at some of the actual stats rather than listening to Trump propaganda and TiBB hysteria. The UK is a much safer country than the United States by literally every single measure there is .

My gratefulness is in reference to not having to worry about foreign terrorism. The increased distance from the unrest in the Middle East is a benefit for the US. The UK is not as far from that region and it's easier for those groups to move into those areas and create a foothold geographically speaking with lax border laws. The support systems are already there and it's easier for them to make their way in.

It's a major convenience that we (the US) are sandwiched between two oceans with two very good neighbors and I think that screening helps, but without being able to just walk in (physically), it's makes creating policies/defenses against foreign terrorism domestically a bit more practical. With all the internal issues that the US is facing at the moment, it's at least one thing that at least at the moment seems to be fairly under control... and my point is that geographical distance probably helps.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Violent crime in general stats in the US are 300%+ higher than the UK. Murder rates in the US are 1600% of the UK's. Yes, that's two zeros, as in sixteen times higher.

I'm just saying Maru. Maybe look at some of the actual stats rather than listening to Trump propaganda and TiBB hysteria. The UK is a much safer country than the United States by literally every single measure there is .

Yes the UK is safer but it isn’t going to stay that way! That is the problem.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Yes the UK is safer but it isn’t going to stay that way! That is the problem.

"Unspecific doom forecast"

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

"Unspecific doom forecast"

It has been reported from several sources that London Murder Rates have eclipsed those in New York for the first time.

I think that Brillo is forecasting that if something isn't done by the 'Authorities' then this trend will spread to ALL our major cities, and there is real evidence that this is what is actually happening.

Unchecked immigration is one of the reasons behind these horrific figures.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...g-london-year/

[Toy Soldier]

The increased crime rates are in (large) part due the ghettoism which, yes, has links to immigration (deprived areas in London tend to have large immigrant populations) but the problem is the social division and isolation caused BY ghettoism... the problem is "not enough integration", not "too much immigration".

Also a major factor in London's crime rates being higher than New York is that New York's violent crime rates have fallen by almost 20% since the de facto handgun ban.

More importantly; you're comparing the UK's MOST problematic cities with a cherrypicked US couterpart; The US has four cities (St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans and Detroit) in the top 50 for murder worldwide. The UK has zero. Also... take a look at those four US cities that are in the top 50. What do they have problems with? Immigration? No; the cities with the highest immigrant population in the US are generally California or Miami based. Also, New York is in the top 10 for immigration.

So what DO those violent US cities all have in common? What DO they have in common with London? Large areas with social and economic deprivation and increasing ghettoism.

[Withano]

The second sentence isn't inaccurate. Why should I trust the rest of the article to be?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

The second sentence isn't inaccurate. Why should I trust the rest of the article to be?

It would greatly help if you identified who you are referring your post to and which particular article - maybe even also quoting the sentence?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The increased crime rates are in (large) part due the ghettoism which, yes, has links to immigration (deprived areas in London tend to have large immigrant populations) but the problem is the social division and isolation caused BY ghettoism... the problem is "not enough integration", not "too much immigration".

Also a major factor in London's crime rates being higher than New York is that New York's violent crime rates have fallen by almost 20% since the de facto handgun ban.

More importantly; you're comparing the UK's MOST problematic cities with a cherrypicked US couterpart; The US has four cities (St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans and Detroit) in the top 50 for murder worldwide. The UK has zero. Also... take a look at those four US cities that are in the top 50. What do they have problems with? Immigration? No; the cities with the highest immigrant population in the US are generally California or Miami based. Also, New York is in the top 10 for immigration.

So what DO those violent US cities all have in common? What DO they have in common with London? Large areas with social and economic deprivation and increasing ghettoism.

It sounds like you are firmly placing the blame for social and economic deprivation and increasing ghettosim on everyone but those living in those areas. We are constantly being told that we are short of workers and need more people to come here to fill all the vacant jobs apparently available out there so why aren't those in these deprived areas doing just that and improving their situation. And how does being poor justify violence? I will never accept that being poor justifies violence, crime and murder! Living in a ghetto doesn't mean you have to act like it. Besides ghettoism also comes from within where people living together in defined areas choose not to integrate, to keep to themselves and follow their own ways.

Blaming the hosts is a detraction in my opinion.

[Maru]

Oh. TS thought I made my comment in reference to some sense of personal physical safety. Yes, a little bit maybe, but my concerns were more cultural. If we had attacks going off in the US, with as hostile and flammable the political atmosphere here has become, I worry it would be like a match to a giant stack of fuel... 9/11 really polarized things politically & culturally-speaking.

I'm not really sure how the US would fair if we had foreign terrorism going off at the same time as everything else. It would seem we're already at the peak of the culture war...