[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Except the point is that it looks like he's been sentenced to death because of his sexuality, going by the story, they would have sentenced him to life imprisonment if he was straight. That's the problem.



That's not the point though, the point is has he been sentenced harsher than a straight man would for the same crime which is completely wrong regardless of the circumstances.

One juror going ewwww at the thought of him bumming another nan wasnt the cataclyst for the final verdict no matter how many times its mentioned....

His vile crime and his non remorseful actions after the crime was his final nail in the coffin.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah but this guy wasn't a child killer though was he? I mean like a serial killer or someone who tortured their victim or whatever, is more severe than someone who just stabbed someone to death (not that that's great or anything) but you know what I mean, is there a line from "just killing a person" that needs to be crossed (to multiple killings or particularly cruel killings) to say you would give the person the death penalty or could be allowed give them the death penalty because there should be I think otherwise it's a pretty unfair system

Usually, its the prosecution that go for the conviction and what punishment they expect. They are unlikely to go for a lesser punishment and the jury upgrade it, that's not how it works. So they will have requested the death penalty and the jury agreed. Which is a completely different thing than is being portrayed.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah but this guy wasn't a child killer though was he? I mean like a serial killer or someone who tortured their victim or whatever, is more severe than someone who just stabbed someone to death (not that that's great or anything) but you know what I mean, is there a line from "just killing a person" that needs to be crossed (to multiple killings or particularly cruel killings) to say you would give the person the death penalty or could be allowed give them the death penalty because there should be I think otherwise it's a pretty unfair system

But do individual jurors have to go on record why they come to a decision personally to send to the chair or jail or is this just people speaking out of turn about what was discussed before they came to a decision?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Usually, its the prosecution that go for the conviction and what punishment they expect. They are unlikely to go for a lesser punishment and the jury upgrade it, that's not how it works. So they will have requested the death penalty and the jury agreed. Which is a completely different thing than is being portrayed.

Thanks BOTS

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

But do individual jurors have to go on record why they come to a decision personally to send to the chair or jail or is this just people speaking out of turn about what was discussed before they came to a decision?

Yes that's what I was asking, I was asking if there was some criteria that had to be met before they're even allowed consider giving the death penalty but obviously not, it depends on what the Prosecution ask for (thanks BOTS) that doesn't sound like a good system to me

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Thanks BOTS



Yes that's what I was asking, I was asking if there was some criteria that had to be met before they're even allowed consider giving the death penalty but obviously not, it depends on what the Prosecution ask for (thanks BOTS) that doesn't sound like a good system to me

Neem one of the states hurriedly killed 7 people in like 2 months because the poison they use was going out of date and they did not want to waste money

no word of a lie

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Neem one of the states hurriedly killed 7 people in like 2 months because the poison they use was going out of date and they did not want to waste money

no word of a lie

Seriously? Bloody hell

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Seriously? Bloody hell

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7673571.html

yep

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7673571.html

yep

grim

[parmnion]

I think jurors have to sign some sort of written explantation as to why they came to the descision.....i could be wrong though.

[GoldHeart]

What I want to know is why has his sexuality become the centre of this story, that's overshadowing the fact he's a murderer !!! . The media are having a field day trying to promote this so called "discrimination" ,shall we all forget he's committed a horrible crime ?. This is insane! . Why not have sympathy for the victim's family.

If a straight criminal was convicted ,the story wouldn't be revolved around his sexuality .

I think it's a far stretch to make assumptions ,and America is confusing in general as every state has a different law and different punishment .

For e.g I've heard crime stories where someone might get lethal injection for doing disgusting things,but another person who equally does heinous crimes will just get a few years in prison That's the system for you .

All round there's inconsistencies whether the convicted is black,white ,female,male ,gay,straight I've seen and heard different punishments for every type of person .

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

What I want to know is why has his sexuality become the centre of this story, that's overshadowing the fact he's a murderer !!! . The media are having a field day trying to promote this so called "discrimination" ,shall we all forget he's committed a horrible crime ?. This is insane! . Why not have sympathy for the victim's family.

If a straight criminal was convicted ,the story wouldn't be revolved around his sexuality .

I think it's a far stretch to make assumptions ,and America is confusing in general as every state has a different law and different punishment .

For e.g I've heard crime stories where someone might get lethal injection for doing disgusting things,but another person who equally does heinous crimes will just get a few years in prison That's the system for you .

All round there's inconsistencies whether the convicted is black,white ,female,male ,gay,straight I've seen and heard different punishments for every type of person .

Again, you've missed the point. His crime is largely irrelevant to the issue of the story. The point of the story is that it's reported that he is getting a death sentence BECAUSE he is gay when he would have been imprisoned for life if he was straight. That is the issue because it sets a dangerous precedent, will gay people be punished more harshly in South Dakota if this story is valid and goes unchallenged?

Do you think that is fair? By ignoring that issue you are basically agreeing with the precedent that could be set here.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

grim

But that's American laws
we have no death penalty
in UK or your EU owned Ireland

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by arista

But that's American laws
we have no death penalty
in UK or your EU owned Ireland

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, you've missed the point. His crime is largely irrelevant to the issue of the story. The point of the story is that it's reported that he is getting a death sentence BECAUSE he is gay when he would have been imprisoned for life if he was straight. That is the issue because it sets a dangerous precedent, will gay people be punished more harshly in South Dakota if this story is valid and goes unchallenged?

Do you think that is fair? By ignoring that issue you are basically agreeing with the precedent that could be set here.

But are they just saying this because he's a minority ??? If he was a woman or black would we be screaming also sexism & racism!?? .

But as I've said I've seen real crime stories of all ethnicities ,both genders & all sexualities getting either death penalty ,or light sentences or life inprisonment .

South Dakota is suddenly unfair and full of hate according to some opinions ? .

What about places like Texas which still have KKK , that was always seen as a backwards state ?. There's still supposed to be a justice system in place despite predjudices .

The news article also says he "may" have gotten death penalty due to his sexuality but that doesn't sound like concrete proof to me .

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

But are they just saying this because he's a minority ??? If he was a woman or black would we be screaming also sexism & racism!?? .

But as I've said I've seen real crime stories of all ethnicities ,both genders & all sexualities getting either death penalty ,or light sentences or life inprisonment .

South Dakota is suddenly unfair and full of hate according to some opinions ? .

What about places like Texas which still have KKK , that was always seen as a backwards state ?. There's still supposed to be a justice system in place despite predjudices .

The news article also says he "may" have gotten death penalty due to his sexuality but that doesn't sound like concrete proof to me .

You're still missing the point.

It's not about getting the murderer freed or anything like that, it's about getting him the same punishment as anyone else would in the same situation. This situation needs to be investigated and the sentencing, if found to be discriminatory, needs to be re-evaluated. You can't push to sentence a gay man to die because he 'might enjoy living with men in prison'. As I said before, that sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to gay people getting harsher sentences than their straight counterparts.

You can gloss over it all you want but all that achieves is condoning discriminatory treatment in the law.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're still missing the point.

It's not about getting the murderer freed or anything like that, it's about getting him the same punishment as anyone else would in the same situation. This situation needs to be investigated and the sentencing, if found to be discriminatory, needs to be re-evaluated. You can't push to sentence a gay man to die because he 'might enjoy living with men in prison'. As I said before, that sets a dangerous precedent that could lead to gay people getting harsher sentences than their straight counterparts.

You can gloss over it all you want but all that achieves is condoning discriminatory treatment in the law.

But he won't be the only gay man convicted in South Dakota surely?. But for some reason this particular story is making headlines and it's being spun into a predjudice argument.

How do you know it's not just another BS story??!! .

And the prison comment about men being together is pretty disgusting ,I can't imagine anyone with a brain saying something so ignorant about a guy "enjoying it " , if that's the case then why don't they care about every straight man that gets sentenced in prison in risk of getting abused there ?.

We all know in both male & female prison violence & abuse happens .
But anyway I'm going off topic , I'm not missing the point either as the man is still a murderer . Now if he'd been WRONGLY arrested & accused then that's a different story .

I've already said America is frustrating with their different laws and punishment's on every state , I've watched crime programs which makes us scratch our heads at the different sentences and punishment's .

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

But he won't be the only gay man convicted in South Dakota surely?. But for some reason this particular story is making headlines and it's being spun into a predjudice argument.

How do you know it's not just another BS story??!! .

And the prison comment about men being together is pretty disgusting ,I can't imagine anyone with a brain saying something so ignorant about a guy "enjoying it " , if that's the case then why don't they care about every straight man that gets sentenced in prison in risk of getting abused there ?.

We all know in both male & female prison violence & abuse happens .
But anyway I'm going off topic , I'm not missing the point either as the man is still a murderer . Now if he'd been WRONGLY arrested & accused then that's a different story .

I've already said America is frustrating with their different laws and punishment's on every state , I've watched crime programs which makes us scratch our heads at the different sentences and punishment's .

This is giving me a headache. Right, last time I explain it.

The story suggests there is court records of discrimination within the sentencing, that this gay man is being given a harsher sentence, not because of his crime, but because of his sexuality. Do you understand the issue with that? Are you following me thus far?

This story isn't about overturning a conviction or even other court cases involving gay people (unless it's revealed that there's more cases like this in which gay people were handed harsher punishments on the grounds of their sexuality) so I'm quite bewildered by your opening sentence tbh. It doesn't have any relevance to the topic at hand. This story is making headlines because a gay man is being killed when he would have likely been given a life sentence if he was straight? Do you understand the problem with that?

As for the BS line, there's one thing I'm growing increasingly tired of in today's world and that is people declaring anything they dislike as fake news so they don't have to pay attention to it or deal with it. Delusion is not an answer. If there is grounds to believe this sentence was handed down because of homophobia rather than because the crime demanded it then it's the morally correct decision to raise awareness of the story and hope there's an investigation into the sentencing, if it turns out to be true as the articles suggest then the courts will likely hand out a more ethical sentence and he would likely be spending the rest of his life in prison.

Again, you've shown in your paragraph (the one that starts off with the weird prison violence line, that you simply aren't getting it. This isn't about him being innocent or overturning the verdict. This is about making sure that he is not being sentenced to die, not because the crime demands it, but because he is gay.

I honestly don't know how else to say it to help you understand what this story is about.

[chuff me dizzy]

He took an innocent life ..... End of ,good riddance

[montblanc]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

He took an innocent life ..... End of ,good riddance

that's not the point, chuff.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by montblanc

that's not the point, chuff.

It IS the point, he took a life, he paid the price

[montblanc]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

It IS the point, he took a life, he paid the price

he was given a harder sentence because he was gay

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

It IS the point, he took a life, he paid the price

Nope, you're glossing over the fact why this story has gained prominence to begin with, thus you have completely missed the point.

No one is saying he doesn't deserve to be convicted, people just want him to be convicted with the same consideration a straight person would be.

Answer me this, are you fine with sentencing a gay person to death for a crime that a straight person would have got a life sentence for? Do you not see the issue there?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by montblanc

he was given a harder sentence because he was gay

An eye for an eye

[LeatherTrumpet]

Hang on the majority of the forum constantly tell me death is the easiest option and that festering in jail is far worse

Make up your minds

?

[montblanc]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

An eye for an eye

i don't think you understand the problem with this but ok