[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

In every country...or just the usa, where for some reason you seem to think you live in.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

In every country...or just the usa, where for some reason you seem to think you live in.

Oh look, another personal attack in place of an actual response.

Many countries are taking hostile views on immigration, there's a definite rise in extreme alt right groups in Europe for example that should have everyone both left and right worried.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh look, another personal attack in place of an actual response.

Many countries are taking hostile views on immigration, there's a definite rise in extreme alt right groups in Europe for example that should have everyone both left and right worried.

The reason for the rise in alt right groups is easily attributable though, to the intransigence of the EU policy makers (driven by Merkel). If the EU hadn't implemented the ludicrous policies they had, the alt right would have had no support. People like a balance, and thats all they are requesting here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

I've deliberately been staying away from most SD threads which have descended into a feckfest of extreme B.S-riddled hyperbole - in my opinion -but this is so wrong on all counts.

All around the world, people in general STILL care about tragedies such as drowning immigrants, senseless terrorist atrocities, increasing lawlessness and urban violence, and a host of other depressing trends which litter or have littered the news.

From dead immigrant babies washed up on foreign shores to dead babies in the UK who have been failed by Social Services and abused, tortured and ultimately killed by their parents, or dead toddlers horrifically tortured and sadistically murdered by other children - DECENT people STILL have Sympathy and Empathy, and MOST people ARE decent.

To state with such supreme authority and finality that "people are caring less and less about it." is - whether erroneously or by design - a totally presumptuous and false statement which is without any foundation.

The media select which 'news' will headline and which 'news' will or will not even be reported on.

Because no recent ISIS beheadings of innocent people or other atrocities are being reported by our newspapers or TV stations does not mean that such atrocities are not still occurring but what it does mean is that such news is no longer in the Public Arena - the spotlight - and therefore the general public are not discussing it or commenting on it with the same degree of fervour that they would otherwise be.

This can not EVER be interpreted as the 'Public' no longer caring and to attempt to portray it as such is simply unfair to the majority of people WORLD-WIDE who are as caring and decent as they have ever been and probably more concerned than they have ever been.

As for your statement that: "we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected." I would love to see proof of this.

Or is the above sweeping statement yet more personal unqualified opinion cloaked as authoritative fact?

If you are referring to the election of Trump in the USA and the rise of Right Wing political parties throughout Europe, then this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION - the result of the increasingly concerned people in those countries RECOGNISING that the damage which has been done to their countries by decades of insane Neo-Liberal and Left-Wing policies NEEDED to be addressed and remedied, and accordingly and democratically, those people have spoken through the ballot box.

It is no coincidence that most of the countries where the Right-Wing HAVE gained traction are the very countries most adversely affected by the EU and the consequences of its shambolic policies - most notably the chaos which is the Migrant crisis.

There is also a growing recognition in people generally of how 'Fake News' and 'Tragic Imagery' is being cynically used by extremist political organisations on both the Left and Right to further their agendas - the washed-up dead immigrant child and the 'crying 2-year-old Honduran girl' so dishonestly placed with 'an overlooking Trump' by Time magazine being two examples - and this tempers any PUBLIC outpouring of the natural reaction of empathy, anger, and horror which the public do still feel.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I've deliberately been staying away from most SD threads which have descended into a feckfest of extreme B.S-riddled hyperbole - in my opinion -but this is so wrong on all counts.

All around the world, people in general STILL care about tragedies such as drowning immigrants, senseless terrorist atrocities, increasing lawlessness and urban violence, and a host of other depressing trends which litter or have littered the news.

From dead immigrant babies washed up on foreign shores to dead babies in the UK who have been failed by Social Services and abused, tortured and ultimately killed by their parents, or dead toddlers horrifically tortured and sadistically murdered by other children - DECENT people STILL have Sympathy and Empathy, and MOST people ARE decent.

To state with such supreme authority and finality that "people are caring less and less about it." is - whether erroneously or by design - a totally presumptuous and false statement which is without any foundation.

The media select which 'news' will headline and which 'news' will or will not even be reported on.

Because no recent ISIS beheadings of innocent people or other atrocities are being reported by our newspapers or TV stations does not mean that such atrocities are not still occurring but what it does mean is that such news is no longer in the Public Arena - the spotlight - and therefore the general public are not discussing it or commenting on it with the same degree of fervour that they would otherwise be.

This can not EVER be interpreted as the 'Public' no longer caring and to attempt to portray it as such is simply unfair to the majority of people WORLD-WIDE who are as caring and decent as they have ever been and probably more concerned than they have ever been.

As for your statement that: "we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected." I would love to see proof of this.

Or is the above sweeping statement yet more personal unqualified opinion cloaked as authoritative fact?

If you are referring to the election of Trump in the USA and the rise of Right Wing political parties throughout Europe, then this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION - the result of the increasingly concerned people in those countries RECOGNISING that the damage which has been done to their countries by decades of insane Neo-Liberal and Left-Wing policies NEEDED to be addressed and remedied, and accordingly and democratically, those people have spoken through the ballot box.

It is no coincidence that most of the countries where the Right-Wing HAVE gained traction are the very countries most adversely affected by the EU and the consequences of its shambolic policies - most notably the chaos which is the Migrant crisis.

There is also a growing recognition in people generally of how 'Fake News' and 'Tragic Imagery' is being cynically used by extremist political organisations on both the Left and Right to further their agendas - the washed-up dead immigrant child and the 'crying 2-year-old Honduran girl' so dishonestly placed with 'an overlooking Trump' by Time magazine being two examples - and this tempers any PUBLIC outpouring of the natural reaction of empathy, anger, and horror which the public do still feel.

Once again I agree with every word of that Kirk! Democracy is one way traffic with the far-left. Agree with their ideologies or get labelled - and they have many labels ready to stick - racism, bigotry, transphobia, homophobia, islamophobia, fascist, de-humatize, elitist... the list goes on.

Such behaviour is pre-meditated, deliberate, control-seeking rhetoric all aimed at intimidating people to shut the hell up. Thankfully the value of free-thought, free-speech and democracy has been instilled in all of us, whatever our views, by the great nations of the West and we will not be controlled. How does that famous expression go - sticks and stones...

The far-left can suck it up!

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Once again I agree with every word of that Kirk! Democracy is one way traffic with the far-left. Agree with their ideologies or get labelled - and they have many labels ready to stick - racism, bigotry, transphobia, homophobia, islamophobia, fascist, de-humatize, elitist... the list goes on.

Such behaviour is pre-meditated, deliberate, control-seeking rhetoric all aimed at intimidating people to shut the hell up. Thankfully the value of free-thought and free-speech has been ingrained in all of us, whatever our views, by the great countries of the West and we will not be controlled.

Militant bigotry covers it nicely.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Militant bigotry covers it nicely.

Just another one to add to the list. Hence Brexit!

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Because people are caring less and less about it.

If another immigrant child washes up on the beach, you'd get way more people who would just shrug it off and not care one bit. It would not get the same amount of empathy that the first incident created because we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Just another one to add to the list. Hence Brexit!

Not bothered, have EU passport

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Liars and halos - what an odd mix!

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Liars and halos - what an odd mix!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Not bothered, have EU passport

You’re welcome to it!

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Come on Twosugars - this applause is mere hollow gesture and has more to do with 'cocking a snook' at Brillopad's post than any genuine endorsement and appreciation of Dezzy's post.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Come on Twosugars - this applause is mere hollow gesture and has more to do with 'cocking a snook' at Brillopad's post than any genuine endorsement and appreciation of Dezzy's post.

I've also stayed clear of SD. Bigotry depresses me which is not good for my health.
But I endorse Dezzy and others who argue for progressive not regressive politics.

On this issue well we live in callous times. All started with neoconservatives destabilising the region and provoking new wave of radical islam and displacement and migration. But now it is the lefts fault of course.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I've also stayed clear of SD. Bigotry depresses me which is not good for my health.
But I endorse Dezzy and others who argue for progressive not regressive politics.

On this issue well we live in callous times. All started with neoconservatives destabilising the region and provoking new wave of radical islam and displacement and migration. But now it is the lefts fault of course.

I agree. SD is full of bigotry. Just who the bigots are though depends on one's politics I suppose.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Oh look, another personal attack in place of an actual response.

Many countries are taking hostile views on immigration, there's a definite rise in extreme alt right groups in Europe for example that should have everyone both left and right worried.

What has that got to do with dehumanising people to get elected?

You seem to have taken the fact that trumps in office, and used that to claim that the worlds leaders are being elected because they are dehumanising people....that baffled me and i am surprised you missed the response.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by parmnion

What has that got to do with dehumanising people to get elected?

You seem to have taken the fact that trumps in office, and used that to claim that the worlds leaders are being elected because they are dehumanising people....that baffled me and i am surprised you missed the response.

Trump is a good example, but there are others. Extreme right wing promoting the narrative of besieged nation that needs to close ranks, close borders, withdraw onto itself because it's survival is at stake. Hence outsiders are dehumanized as criminals, terrorists, danger to our way of living, basicaly a menace to be tackled by any means possible. **** the compassion and humanism.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Trump is a good example, but there are others. Extreme right wing promoting the narrative of besieged nation that needs to close ranks, close borders, withdraw onto itself because it's survival is at stake. Hence outsiders are dehumanized as criminals, terrorists, danger to our way of living, basicaly a menace to be tackled by any means possible. **** the compassion and humanism.

who are you talking about specifically?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

who are you talking about specifically?

Trump, right wing in Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Turkey, the list goes on

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Trump, right wing in Germany, France, Netherlands, Poland, Hungary, Italy, Turkey, the list goes on

And you think their concerns are unfounded?

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

And you think their concerns are unfounded?

there are real problems at the root of those "concerns", that's all I can agree on as far as these people are concerned; I don't agree with their ideology, their definitions and their solutions.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The reason for the rise in alt right groups is easily attributable though, to the intransigence of the EU policy makers (driven by Merkel). If the EU hadn't implemented the ludicrous policies they had, the alt right would have had no support. People like a balance, and thats all they are requesting here.

You don't respond to an imbalance with extremism. that just imbalances things further. We are simply doomed to repeat history's mistakes.

[bitontheslide]

Why should prospering countries downgrade their security, standard of living and democratic principles for economic migrants, which is what the majority seeking relocation are?

Why shouldn't the regimes from where the come be held responsible for their peoples plight rather than putting that burden on others?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I've also stayed clear of SD. Bigotry depresses me which is not good for my health.
But I endorse Dezzy and others who argue for progressive not regressive politics.

On this issue well we live in callous times. All started with neoconservatives destabilising the region and provoking new wave of radical islam and displacement and migration. But now it is the lefts fault of course.

But what you fail to acknowledge is that ‘progressive politics’ means different things to different people. Your idea of progressive politics is not the same as someone else’s - so there is no definitive position on the ‘rights and wrongs’ on this issue.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You don't respond to an imbalance with extremism. that just imbalances things further. We are simply doomed to repeat history's mistakes.

If that was so the hard left and their controlling behaviour would have a big part to play in that!