[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I've deliberately been staying away from most SD threads which have descended into a feckfest of extreme B.S-riddled hyperbole - in my opinion -but this is so wrong on all counts.

All around the world, people in general STILL care about tragedies such as drowning immigrants, senseless terrorist atrocities, increasing lawlessness and urban violence, and a host of other depressing trends which litter or have littered the news.

From dead immigrant babies washed up on foreign shores to dead babies in the UK who have been failed by Social Services and abused, tortured and ultimately killed by their parents, or dead toddlers horrifically tortured and sadistically murdered by other children - DECENT people STILL have Sympathy and Empathy, and MOST people ARE decent.

To state with such supreme authority and finality that "people are caring less and less about it." is - whether erroneously or by design - a totally presumptuous and false statement which is without any foundation.

The media select which 'news' will headline and which 'news' will or will not even be reported on.

Because no recent ISIS beheadings of innocent people or other atrocities are being reported by our newspapers or TV stations does not mean that such atrocities are not still occurring but what it does mean is that such news is no longer in the Public Arena - the spotlight - and therefore the general public are not discussing it or commenting on it with the same degree of fervour that they would otherwise be.

This can not EVER be interpreted as the 'Public' no longer caring and to attempt to portray it as such is simply unfair to the majority of people WORLD-WIDE who are as caring and decent as they have ever been and probably more concerned than they have ever been.

As for your statement that: "we are living in a world where dehumanising people gets you elected." I would love to see proof of this.

Or is the above sweeping statement yet more personal unqualified opinion cloaked as authoritative fact?

If you are referring to the election of Trump in the USA and the rise of Right Wing political parties throughout Europe, then this is DEMOCRACY IN ACTION - the result of the increasingly concerned people in those countries RECOGNISING that the damage which has been done to their countries by decades of insane Neo-Liberal and Left-Wing policies NEEDED to be addressed and remedied, and accordingly and democratically, those people have spoken through the ballot box.

It is no coincidence that most of the countries where the Right-Wing HAVE gained traction are the very countries most adversely affected by the EU and the consequences of its shambolic policies - most notably the chaos which is the Migrant crisis.

There is also a growing recognition in people generally of how 'Fake News' and 'Tragic Imagery' is being cynically used by extremist political organisations on both the Left and Right to further their agendas - the washed-up dead immigrant child and the 'crying 2-year-old Honduran girl' so dishonestly placed with 'an overlooking Trump' by Time magazine being two examples - and this tempers any PUBLIC outpouring of the natural reaction of empathy, anger, and horror which the public do still feel.

First bold point, of course people still care about child abuse IN the UK, they are British children after all. You only have to look at the US immigration child abuse thread and general response to it across the world to see that a lot of people simply no longer care if it's immigrant children that are facing abuse. You can deny it all you want but that doesn't really make what I'm saying any less true.

As for my statement about elections, look at the US and look at various EU countries that are seeing a rise in hate fuelled parties. You'd have to be completely wilfully ignoring what happened in the US election to think that Trump's dehumanisation of mexican people didn't play a huge part in his victory and rise to power.

As for the 'authoritive text' BS, I've never said that this was anything other than my opinion, what you've said in this sentence is simply a way of making my opinion seem more like I'm stating facts so you can discredit what I'm saying without actually putting any effort into it. Do I have to signify that everything I say is an informed opinion or can I trust in your reading comprehension skills to tell the difference in future?

Saying that Trump's election is democracy in action doesn't justify what he does with it. Plenty of countries in the past and present have had democratically elected leaders that have corrupted the process to their own advantage. You can't say DEMOCRACY and act like anyone who has a negative opinion on the leadership is somehow opposed to democracy. That's just a blatant attempt at disallowing opinions you disagree with by smearing them.

Finally you responded to a lot of my points saying they are unfounded (because they are informed opinions) but a lot of your time your responses have been basically 'people are still good!' but you've provided no real evidence of this like you've demanded of me. I think if you want your opinion to hold water, you need to provide something to go along with your opinion if you're going to try to repress other opinions like you have in this post.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

If that was so the hard left and their controlling behaviour would have a big part to play in that!

Can you remember what I said a few days ago when I suspected you didn't realise there were different factions of the Right and how most of the Right dislike Alt Right and other extreme elements but you didn't know that because you'd jump into full on 'LEFT'S FAULT' mode whenever the alt right was brought up?

Well this kinda confirms my suspicions. I made a point of differentiating between the right and the alt right and even said that the right should be worried (which they are, no one wants to see the Alt Right gain prominence) but you've seen 'right' and gone into your usual left spiel although it has zero relevance to the discussion.

It might be a good idea to research what you are defending so vehemently.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Can you remember what I said a few days ago when I suspected you didn't realise there were different factions of the Right and how most of the Right dislike Alt Right and other extreme elements but you didn't know that because you'd jump into full on 'LEFT'S FAULT' mode whenever the alt right was brought up?

Well this kinda confirms my suspicions. I made a point of differentiating between the right and the alt right and even said that the right should be worried (which they are, no one wants to see the Alt Right gain prominence) but you've seen 'right' and gone into your usual left spiel although it has zero relevance to the discussion.

It might be a good idea to research what you are defending so vehemently.

Really! I seem to recall telling you that you shouldn’t imply that everyone who does not support mass immigration of economic migrants is far right. So don’t try to transfer your lack of understanding onto me.

Personally I believe that those that support this type of immigration despite the security risks its poses to our citizens and the increase of cultures incompatible with our own as well as trying to dictate against free-thought and free-speech via legislation are far-left.

And unless you can produce evidence of good research yourself it would be best not to try to lecture others. Practice what you preach!

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Really! I seem to recall telling you that you shouldn’t imply that everyone who does not support mass immigration of economic migrants is far right. So don’t try to transfer your lack of understanding onto me.

Personally I believe that those that support this type of immigration despite the security risks its poses to our citizens and the increase of cultures incompatible with our own as well as trying to dictate against free-thought and free-speech via legislation are far-left.

And unless you can produce evidence of good research yourself it would be best not to try to lecture others. Practice what you preach!

This is another case of your imagination overwriting what I actually said...again. Honestly, this is becoming a problem. You take what people write, you ignore it and you just run with your own narrative. A very toxic attitude when it comes to debates.

You can believe what you want but it doesn't make it factually correct. The far left certainly isn't everyone who supports immigration (or, more specifically, it seems, anyone that doesn't share your views). You talk of free speech but in truth you just want your own opinion to be heard whilst shutting down any voices that aren't aligned with yours. What you want is controlled speech that benefits you. Acting like opposing freedoms is something that only the left does is again, simply not correct. There are plenty of right leaning groups that want the same.

The problem is that you think left and right is a black and white issue and it's not. It's all grey. There are far left groups just like there are far right groups and neither define each side but you are determined to simplify it just so you can blame the left for all the ills in the world.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

This is another case of your imagination overwriting what I actually said...again. Honestly, this is becoming a problem. You take what people write, you ignore it and you just run with your own narrative. A very toxic attitude when it comes to debates.

You can believe what you want but it doesn't make it factually correct. The far left certainly isn't everyone who supports immigration (or, more specifically, it seems, anyone that doesn't share your views). You talk of free speech but in truth you just want your own opinion to be heard whilst shutting down any voices that aren't aligned with yours. What you want is controlled speech that benefits you. Acting like opposing freedoms is something that only the left does is again, simply not correct. There are plenty of right leaning groups that want the same.

The problem is that you think left and right is a black and white issue and it's not. It's all grey. There are far left groups just like there are far right groups and neither define each side but you are determined to simplify it just so you can blame the left for all the ills in the world.

You accuse me of things I have accused you of on several occasions in the past. Trying to turn it around on me is fruitless.

As I said I am well aware of this so don’t try preaching to me to give the impression you know best - you don’t.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You accuse me of things I have accused you of on several occasions in the past. Trying to turn it around on me is fruitless.

As I said I am well aware of this so don’t try preaching to me to give the impression you know best - you don’t.

You've never accused me of anything what I've written in that post because you've shown that you don't understand the intricacies of the left and right. You've just parroted what I said and tried to turn it on me with your 'I know you are but what am I?' routine which is what you always do when you're losing an argument and can't think of anything to respond with.

Your imagined versions of what people write and what they actually wrote are two different things, you need to try to focus on what people actually write.