[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes but that's why it's been ripe for manipulation. Religious texts are all full of rhetoric that's easy to frame in the context of War.

The tidal political forces in the middle east have frequently been western, right back to the middle ages, with Islam being used as a tool in that (just as Christianity has been used in the west, many times).

Whether or not there's still anyone at the wheel is another debate. ISIS was basically the result of deliberately created militant Islamic groups, funded, armed and promoted by the West and Russia throughout the 20th century. They then were "cut loose" and reformed as something different that DOES have religious motivation. But it's not a group that formed naturally.

To be honest with the risk involved, I don’t think the history, whatever it is, is as relevant as the here and now. It is the threat they pose to the West now that counts and people don’t need a history lesson to know that.

These people from certain minority groups - which are only a minority in the West, they are the majority in many other parts of the world, identify with this particular religion and group, whatever their motives, and there lies the problem. They may or may not be using religion as an excuse for their crimes but the threat is still the same. People naturally want to minimise the risk not increase it.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Have you read the comments about Jesus and Christianity and you pass no comments but as soon as there is a negative comment on the Koran you object - rather one-dided don’t you think! You can’t object to criticism of one religion and not the rest and expect it to be relevant.

Fact is one particular religion is causing more problems in the world today than any other! It may be some people’s interpretation of the words to suit in some cases but in others the words speak for themselves.

What the hell are you talking about ??? , I'm talking about Religion in general it's not because of the Quran you mentioned .

And you obviously have no idea on my previous posts , I've made comments on Christianity/ Catholism .

All I'm saying is it's people who abuse religion , the average person with faith & religion is peaceful and they don't push any beliefs on people .

I don't believe in reincarnation but I don't mock Buddhism .

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

What the hell are you talking about ??? , I'm talking about Religion in general it's not because of the Quran you mentioned .

And you obviously have no idea on my previous posts , I've made comments on Christianity/ Catholism .

All I'm saying is it's people who abuse religion , the average person with faith & religion is peaceful and they don't push any beliefs on people .

I don't believe in reincarnation but I don't mock Buddhism .

they push beliefs on to their children

sadly

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they push beliefs on to their children

sadly

Obviously everyone is different .

There will always be strict conservative families , and yes some people are fanatics who force their agendas on other people like it's their way or the high way and that's wrong to do .

But you can't tar these people with the same brush

There's arrogance and brainwashing in some Athieism as well , some of them are very forceful with their beliefs or rather not beliefs .

I don't like anyone who tries to push anything on anyone

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

they push beliefs on to their children

sadly

Don't all parents do that to an extend? Push their worldview on their children?
Once they grow up, children have free will to reject that baggage.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

What the hell are you talking about ??? , I'm talking about Religion in general it's not because of the Quran you mentioned .

And you obviously have no idea on my previous posts , I've made comments on Christianity/ Catholism .

All I'm saying is it's people who abuse religion , the average person with faith & religion is peaceful and they don't push any beliefs on people .

I don't believe in reincarnation but I don't mock Buddhism .

I am not religious and not a fan of religion in general. But I only have a problem with it when it significantly infringes on the rights and values of others. One in particular is doing so, in my opinion, big time and posing a threat to many.

My comment to you was based on the fact that you didn’t pass comment on other far more negative comments on Jesus and Christianity but I made one criticism of of the Koran/Quran and you jumped all over it. It made no sense and sounded biased.

I read through the thread and saw no previous posts of yours criticising others who had made stronger anti Christianity threads - only mine which found fault with The Koran. If you have done so in other threads how on earth am I supposed to know that - I was talking about this thread.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

What the hell are you talking about ??? , I'm talking about Religion in general it's not because of the Quran you mentioned .

And you obviously have no idea on my previous posts , I've made comments on Christianity/ Catholism .

All I'm saying is it's people who abuse religion , the average person with faith & religion is peaceful and they don't push any beliefs on people .

I don't believe in reincarnation but I don't mock Buddhism .

must agree, majority of religious people are sensible about these things

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Don't all parents do that to an extend? Push their worldview on their children?
Once they grow up, children have free will to reject that baggage.

yes just like happens with virtually all muslims and say jews....

oh wait

[Twosugars]

I was brought up Catholic, didn't do me any harm. Still have fondness for it. Best religion when it comes to rituals and mysticism. And the churches, all the old churches...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

I was brought up Catholic, didn't do me any harm. Still have fondness for it. Best religion when it comes to rituals and mysticism. And the churches, all the old churches...

you were one of the lucky ones who were not horribly sexually abused

its not a great thing to celebrate

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you were one of the lucky ones who were not horribly sexually abused

its not a great thing to celebrate

ehm, I was as it happens. But no lasting harm was done and rather not talk about the details.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

ehm, I was as it happens. But no lasting harm was done and rather not talk about the details.

welcome to religion

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Don't all parents do that to an extend? Push their worldview on their children?
Once they grow up, children have free will to reject that baggage.

Exactly

As a parent obviously you're views and beliefs will be taught to your children, at a young age the child is introduced to it and then as they grow up it's their choice to decide.

[Withano]

This thread took a turn from interesting to SD&N-ey real fast

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

welcome to religion

could have happened in other places

need to distinquish between religion and the church as an institution

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Withano

This thread took a turn from interesting to SD&N-ey real fast

it's not that bad

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Exactly

As a parent obviously you're views and beliefs will be taught to your children, at a young age the child is introduced to it and then as they grow up it's their choice to decide.

yes just look at all the muslim children in the middle east and asia rejecting religion

oh wait no they dont

thye just grow up to do the same thing to their children

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

it's not that bad

I mean, it is. The OP raises an interesting question, and nobody has been close to discussing that for 50-odd posts. Shame really.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I am not religious and not a fan of religion in general. But I only have a problem with it when it significantly infringes on the rights and values of others. One in particular is doing so, in my opinion, big time and posing a threat to many.

My comment to you was based on the fact that you didn’t pass comment on other far more negative comments on Jesus and Christianity but I made one criticism of of the Koran/Quran and you jumped all over it. It made no sense and sounded biased.

I read through the thread and saw no previous posts of yours criticising others who had made stronger anti Christianity threads - only mine which found fault with The Koran. If you have done so in other threads how on earth am I supposed to know that - I was talking about this thread.

Don't think yourself special ,I just decided to reply to yours as it was just luck of the draw . I read through all comments. You're the one taking it the wrong way ,I was talking Religion in general . Let's be sensible.

I'm not biased atall . I'm talking about other topics (not every thread on the forum) as I don't partake in every discussion on this forum .

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Withano

I mean, it is. The OP raises an interesting question, and nobody has been close to discussing that for 50-odd posts. Shame really.

yes, it's gone off topic but it's still recoverable and people are still willing to discuss without dramz

[Kazanne]

I don't find religion a problem per-se , it's how people respond and act upon it that is the problem imo, I was brought up as a Christian , and do believe in something else ,something higher as in God , I do get ridiculed for it sometimes,but I really don't care ,it's my choice, I don't care what others believe in either ,that is also their choice, but when people take religion and use it to oppress and hurt others then ,they are a problem.

[AnnieK]

Religion and religious beliefs bring great peace and comfort to some. I really dont understand the need for some people to ridicule and mock people of faith.

Some people use religion to excuse and explain atrocities as though they were carrying out some greater orders.

I don't agree with pushing religion onto children, my parent's (neither of whom ever attend church) were really pissed off that I didn't have.my some christened but I said he should choose as and when he wants to get christened. He may want to follow another religion, he may want to become a jedi and when he decides that he can do it.

I believe Jesus was a very religious man of his time. Son of god, born if a virgin....Not so much but I remain open minded and respect people's wishes to believe that.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Don't think yourself special ,I just decided to reply to yours as it was just luck of the draw . I read through all comments. You're the one taking it the wrong way ,I was talking Religion in general . Let's be sensible.

I'm not biased atall . I'm talking about other topics (not every thread on the forum) as I don't partake in every discussion on this forum .

I said it came across that way not that you did. You are the one who got arsy with your facepalm emojis and now saying I think I am special - where did I say that? It just sounded that you were criticising me for criticising Islam in particular. Ok you weren’t - but surely you can see how I may have thought that. There was no need for above comment or facepalm.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

welcome to religion

Corruption & abuse happens in all types of places ,once again you're mixing up religion with the people that are the problem

If you read a news article about a teacher abusing his pupil , are you going to bad-mouth all schools & education and say it no good and that we should scrap it all ?? .

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Corruption & abuse happens in all types of places ,once again you're mixing up religion with the people that are the problem

If you read a news article about a teacher abusing his pupil , are you going to bad-mouth all schools & education and say it no good and that we should scrap it all ?? .

lol

religion is people, it was invented by people and is maintained by people

i have no clue what you think it is?

if you have a an example where similar systematic child abuse happened like the catholic church then lets compare?