[Brillopad]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44840154

It seems pretty obvious it’s not going to happen - and the more people push the more others dig their heels in. The whole undemocratic idea has fallen flat on its face.

[LaLaLand]

Good - we're a democracy, you can't just keep re-doing polls until you get the result you want.

The people (17.4 million people that is) voted to leave, and leave is what should happen.

[bitontheslide]

we are in unprecedented territory, i wouldn't be quick to write anything off at this point. The only reason May is saying no referendum at the moment is because she has a plan she wants to put through. If that fails, then all bets are off

[michael21]

Theresa May has said there wont be a second one so it possible

[Withano]

Originally Posted by michael21

Theresa May has said there wont be a second one so it possible

true

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by michael21

Theresa May has said there wont be a second one so it possible

Exactly I wouldnt trust her, what happens to the NI border if there is no deal

[michael21]

Originally Posted by Withano

true

I really would not be suprices but is she more worry about her jobs more then the uk

Originally Posted by Cherie

Exactly I wouldnt trust her, what happens to the NI border if there is no deal

Good question it dont look good at this point thinks need to Chages soon before it to late

[Withano]

I strongly and stably wanted to remain in the EU, but then I strongly and stabley changed my mind and demanded a hard brexit, but when that ****ed through, I strongly and stabley went for a soft brexit instead. Then I strongly and stabley said no to a second referendum, so in September, I will vote remain in the second referendum, in a strong and stable manner.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

I strongly and stably wanted to remain in the EU, but then I strongly and stabley changed my mind and demanded a hard brexit, but when that ****ed through, I strongly and stabley went for a soft brexit instead. Then I strongly and stabley said no to a second referendum, so in September, I will vote remain in the second referendum, in a strong and stable manner.

She has something in common with Corbyn then - they both bowed down to pressure. They both changed their minds.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

She has something in common with Corbyn then - they both bowed down to pressure. They both changed their minds.

Why did you think that was relevant

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Why did you think that was relevant

Seems relevant to me as many of those against Brexit and May are Labour/Corbyn supporters.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Seems relevant to me as many of those against Brexit and May are Labour/Corbyn supporters.

You jumped like 5 hoops there and its still not relevant. Stick to the topic please.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

You jumped like 5 hoops there and its still not relevant. Stick to the topic please.

I am.

[jaxie]

I would like to think there will not be another referendum because the democracy we live by already spoke wih a majority. However establishment politics cannot be trusted so I wouldn't be shocked either. I don't think it would go down well with the 17 million though.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I would like to think there will not be another referendum because the democracy we live by already spoke wih a majority. However establishment politics cannot be trusted so I wouldn't be shocked either. I don't think it would go down well with the 17 million though.

that's the problem though isn't it, it will be welcomed by another 17 million, the parties are really threading such a fine line not trying to alienate literally half the population, and that is why I think it will be given back to the public because no party wants to be associated with it as it will hurt them for decades, the other thing you would ask is why are leavers so afraid of a second vote? Leave might win by a bigger majority and it would finally put this bed if they won by a decent percentage.

[Cherie]

Vote Leave referred to the Police for breaking electoral law

https://news.sky.com/story/vote-leav...l-law-11439218

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Vote Leave referred to the Police for breaking electoral law

https://news.sky.com/story/vote-leav...l-law-11439218

Yes Even the LibDem's were finned.
Everyone is at it.

Another Fine.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

that's the problem though isn't it, it will be welcomed by another 17 million, the parties are really threading such a fine line not trying to alienate literally half the population, and that is why I think it will be given back to the public because no party wants to be associated with it as it will hurt them for decades, the other thing you would ask is why are leavers so afraid of a second vote? Leave might win by a bigger majority and it would finally put this bed if they won by a decent percentage.

It's not being afraid of another vote it's that the idea of keeping voting until you get the answer the losing side want is democratically abhorrant. It's wrong and had remain won the original vote I would still think it would be wrong to run the referendum again. When we have a general election we don't keep going and going, we accept the outcome, even when it isn't what we voted for and a new government is formed.

If you did that in sports no team or individual would ever win. England would play eternally for a cup they can never win. Oh yeah they do that anyway..

[bitontheslide]

The next big milestone will be on the acceptance/rejection of the plan by the EU. It may be one of these things that goes to the final hour before approval/no deal is reached. That would be the only time I see a ref being demanded now (with any degree of success) and by then it would be too late

[Livia]

I had lunch yesterday with one the chief of staff of the MPs I used to work with. It seems that Tory MPs are being inundated by constituents with letters and emails demanding May is removed, saying that the Checkers deal is deeply flawed and that they will not be voting Tory again until May steps down.

She's got to go... I'm sick of pussy-footing around the sneering Old-Boys club that is the EU. One in seven German cars manufactured are sold in the UK. We drink more champagne than the French... this isn't a one way thing. It's in Europe's interest, as well as our own, that we get a good deal but what we've had so far is a strutting, puffed up contempt from them.

I would not be against a 2nd referendum. But to go against a democratic vote is dangerous...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Vote Leave referred to the Police for breaking electoral law

https://news.sky.com/story/vote-leav...l-law-11439218

I can almost guarantee that if there was any law-breaking it was through ignorance rather than by design. Election law is complicated, but lots of people think they can be an election agent without understanding the weight of law the Electoral Commission commands. There are fewer and fewer qualified election agents in the country and that's why more and more mistakes are being flagged up by the opposition - whoever that opposition may be at the time. I think what they're referring to is 'shared services' that had not been declared on their expenses return. Someone looked for a flaw, and if expenses have not been prepared by a professional I can almost guarantee there will have been a flaw in there. Had they lumped everything they shared but did not declare as "services in kind" and gave them a notional cost, there would have been nothing to complain about.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's not being afraid of another vote it's that the idea of keeping voting until you get the answer the losing side want is democratically abhorrant. It's wrong and had remain won the original vote I would still think it would be wrong to run the referendum again. When we have a general election we don't keep going and going, we accept the outcome, even when it isn't what we voted for and a new government is formed.

If you did that in sports no team or individual would ever win. England would play eternally for a cup they can never win. Oh yeah they do that anyway..

Totally agree with this - it's about not giving out the wrong message to disgruntled voters, which there will always be, thinking if they make enough fuss they can get a public vote overturned. It would be the start of a slippery slope.

In the unlikely scenario that the remainers won the second vote it would undoubtedly be contested by the leavers in exactly the same way the remainers have done with the original vote. People could and would still plead ignorance as the whole thing is complicated. How could a third vote be refused when a second hadn't. Best of three would be the only fair and democratic route in that scenario.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

It's not being afraid of another vote it's that the idea of keeping voting until you get the answer the losing side want is democratically abhorrant. It's wrong and had remain won the original vote I would still think it would be wrong to run the referendum again. When we have a general election we don't keep going and going, we accept the outcome, even when it isn't what we voted for and a new government is formed.

If you did that in sports no team or individual would ever win. England would play eternally for a cup they can never win. Oh yeah they do that anyway..

That is not a good argument as the rules of the game are in place before the match starts and we then have two GE one after the other lol

I honestly couldn't care less at this stage what happens, so sick of it.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That is not a good argument as the rules of the game are in place before the match starts and we then have two GE one after the other lol

I honestly couldn't care less at this stage what happens, so sick of it.

The rules of the vote were in place too. There were two choices. Since then people desperate to remain for reasons that are a mystery keep inventing types of leave. I keep seeing people say it's disaster, including you Cherie which again is a mystery because how can it be a disaster, nothing has happened, nothing has changed yet.

The only real disaster is a wishy washy appeaser of a PM.

All of it appears to be based on fear. Again a mystery. The world will not end if we stop all EU payments and go to wto rules. Sure it might be a bumpier ride than getting a nice free trade deal with the EU, but it's not a disaster either.

I think everyone is sick of the politics. They need to get on with it. In fact the political establishments gung ho attitude to the people of this country over the EU at the expense of our democracy is one of the reasons I voted leave in the first place.

[Ammi]

...hmmm I think why your sport analogy doesn’t quite work for me, Jaxie..?...is that people have a choice to go into competitive sport...it’s completely their choice to accept ‘the win or the lose’ thing...they can’t replay on and on as you say...until the acceptable result is had because they’ve chosen something which entails both by the nature of it...but with the EU referendum, having the referendum in the first place and ‘becoming a team player in the referendum’ with our votes, whichever way the individual vote was...wasn’t a choice the nation made...it was something enforced on us and many didn’t want that enforcing in the first place..so that has to be respected as well...as does the vote as it stands as Brexit..that the majority wanted it and to leave the EU...the rules weren’t entirely in place either by deciding on the referendum because if they were and they had been..?...all of these struggling negotiations wouldn’t be necessary...


...I’m not pro a 2nd referendum btw...even though I voted to remain in the EU and even though a 2nd vote may achieve that...I just think in the enormity of Brexit, that thing that isn’t going to be voted again after a term in office, type thing...that ‘forever’ thing...it would need to be led by someone who completely believes in it, someone who has great faith in it and always had...and that person is not Theresa May...so yeah, another worry atm...I mean it just makes sense that you have to have great belief in something so important for it to become successful for us all...that’s just such a basic thing...