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Old 16-08-2018, 11:44 AM #1
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Default Jeremy Corbyn poised to backtrack on international anti-Semitism definition

At last the press are
saying he is doing what the Jewish News Papers
asked

https://news.sky.com/story/jeremy-co...ition-11473676


[Ex-PM Gordon Brown says anti-Semitism is a "running sore" that had to be dealt with and predicted change "within a few weeks"]
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Old 16-08-2018, 11:56 AM #2
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Took him long enough.

This is quite annoying: "Jeremy Corbyn is poised to "take one for the team" and make a humiliating climbdown on anti-Semitism by backing an internationally recognised definition in full."

Saying he's "taking one for the team" implies to me that he doesn't believe that he should be complying with the rest of the world.

Last edited by Livia; 16-08-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:02 PM #3
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Really disappointed he's caved into pressure. Criticising the Israeli government is NOT anti-Semitism
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:05 PM #4
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Originally Posted by Greg! View Post
Really disappointed he's caved into pressure. Criticising the Israeli government is NOT anti-Semitism
If that was the one thing Jews were upset about, I'd agree with you. Sadly not though. And no one's saying the Israeli government is beyond criticism. They are, though, beyond being compared to the Nazis.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:07 PM #5
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Really disappointed he's caved into pressure. Criticising the Israeli government is NOT anti-Semitism
Even if it were just that (obviously it isnt)

what on earth is the leader of HM opposition doing talking about Israel and what they do?

Is there not enough going on in the UK?

they have their own elected government
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:09 PM #6
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Even if it were just that (obviously it isnt)

what on earth is the leader of HM opposition doing talking about Israel and what they do?

Is there not enough going on in the UK?

they have their own elected government
And it's the one place in the Middle East where women can vote... and that's Arab Muslim women, as well as Jewish Israeli women... about one in five people in Israel are Arab.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:13 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! View Post
Really disappointed he's caved into pressure. Criticising the Israeli government is NOT anti-Semitism
Working Definition of Antisemitism:
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
I don't see Israel mentioned here?
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:16 PM #8
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If that was the one thing Jews were upset about, I'd agree with you. Sadly not though. And no one's saying the Israeli government is beyond criticism. They are, though, beyond being compared to the Nazis.
I think that describing the Israel government as Nazis is very OTT and distasteful. However imo it doesn't make someone anti Semitic to do so. People have compared actions of the current US government to Nazism. Trump claims to be Christian, but to criticise his policies doesn't make someone anti-Christian. Likewise criticising Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia for human rights abuses doesn't make someone Islamaphobic

As for the other issues in Labour, he's acknowledged that there is a problem in pockets of the party, he's apologised countless times, suspended or revoked membership of loads of people and made the disciplinary process more strict. I don't understand what else people want him to do.

Last edited by Greg!; 16-08-2018 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:17 PM #9
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Originally Posted by Oliver_W View Post
Working Definition of Antisemitism:
“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
I don't see Israel mentioned here?
It is mentioned in the full definition that they've now signed up to

Last edited by Greg!; 16-08-2018 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:18 PM #10
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Too little,too late as far as I'm concerned,left to his own devices this wouldn't have been forthcoming.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:19 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg! View Post
I think that describing the Israel government as Nazis is very OTT and distasteful. However imo it doesn't make someone anti Semitic to do so. People have compared actions of the current US government to Nazism. Trump claims to be Christian, but to criticise his policies doesn't make someone anti-Christian. Likewise criticising Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia for human rights abuses doesn't make someone Islamaphobic

As for the other issues in Labour, he's acknowledged that there is a problem in pockets of the party, he's apologised countless times, suspended or revoked membership of loads of people and made the disciplinary process more strict. I don't understand what else people want him to do.
According to an internationally recognised code of conduct, it is antisemitic to compare Israelis to Nazis. That's the law. It's not open to interpretation.

Discussing Christianity and Islam has nothing to do with this question as neither of those things you have described compared at all.

Apologising isn't enough. When people were accused of antisemitism it took an age for anything to happen... but the instant a Jewish (Labour) MP spoke out to Corbyn, she was IMMEDIATELY on a warning.

Corbyn should have clamped down immediately on the obvious antisemitism that runs though his party and because he hasn't, he now looks antisemitic himself, even if you discount all the other evidence.

Last edited by Livia; 16-08-2018 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:20 PM #12
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It is mentioned in the full definition that they've now signed up to
half a year behind the rest of the world.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:22 PM #13
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According to an internationally recognised code of conduct, it is antisemitic to compare Israelis to Nazis. That's the law.

Discussing Christianity and Islam has nothing to do with this question as neither of those things you have described compared at all.

Corbyn should have clamped down immediately on the obvious antisemitism that runs though his party and because he hasn't, he now looks antisemitic himself, even if you discount all the other evidence.
Well it's not 'the law' is it otherwise every party would be legally required to follow the code.

How can you say he didn't clamp down when loads of people were suspended, disciplinary procedures made more fast and strict and he's apologised loads of times?
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:26 PM #14
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Well it's not 'the law' is it otherwise every party would be legally required to follow the code.

How can you say he didn't clamp down when loads of people were suspended, disciplinary procedures made more fast and strict and he's apologised loads of times?
It IS the law for those who have signed up to it.

Apologising time and again isn't dealing with the problem.

And when you add it all up, the clear antisemitism, refusing initially to sign up to a code of conduct that is internationally recognised, without amendment, His support of the Hamas, the IRA and several other violent terrorist organisations...

I'm afraid Mr Corbyn is a mad old Soviert nostalgist and he'll now never be PM.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:28 PM #15
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It IS the law for those who have signed up to it.

Apologising time and again isn't dealing with the problem.

And when you add it all up, the clear antisemitism, refusing initially to sign up to a code of conduct that is internationally recognised, without amendment, His support of the Hamas, the IRA and several other violent terrorist organisations...

I'm afraid Mr Corbyn is a mad old Soviert nostalgist and he'll now never be PM.
Wouldn't be so sure about that since he's winning the polls but ok!
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:30 PM #16
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Wouldn't be so sure about that since he's winning the polls but ok!
That'll be the same polls that said we'd remain in the EU and Trump would never be President.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:36 PM #17
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According to an internationally recognised code of conduct, it is antisemitic to compare Israelis to Nazis. That's the law. It's not open to interpretation.

Discussing Christianity and Islam has nothing to do with this question as neither of those things you have described compared at all.

Apologising isn't enough. When people were accused of antisemitism it took an age for anything to happen... but the instant a Jewish (Labour) MP spoke out to Corbyn, she was IMMEDIATELY on a warning.

Corbyn should have clamped down immediately on the obvious antisemitism that runs though his party and because he hasn't, he now looks antisemitic himself, even if you discount all the other evidence.
@Bold I wouldn't have considered that right away to be Anti-Semetic either... but then I thought about it a little bit... The more you know...

I wish everyone would stop labeling other people Nazis so carelessly. It tramples over that history and trivializes the progress we did somehow manage in the last century.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:40 PM #18
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That'll be the same polls that said we'd remain in the EU and Trump would never be President.
lol lots of the Brexit polls towards the end showed that leave would win or that if was too close to call. The US is a different country and will have their own polling organisations with different methodology from the UK
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:40 PM #19
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Comparing anyone in or near power to Nazis is pretty stupid.
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Old 16-08-2018, 12:41 PM #20
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Comparing anyone in or near power to Nazis is pretty stupid.
I agree but it's not anti-Semitic to criticise a country's policies, even if the criticism is innacurate/offensive
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Old 16-08-2018, 01:11 PM #21
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Really disappointed he's caved into pressure. Criticising the Israeli government is NOT anti-Semitism

Greg
he has no choice.

3 Jewish newspapers
all had the same headline
and that was weeks ago.

Once he changes it to what they asked for
it can stop taking up Headlines.
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Old 16-08-2018, 01:31 PM #22
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To compare any government to the Nazi's kind of negates how horrific the Nazi government was. o to compare them to Israele, a nation associated with the victims of the nazi reigime takes away from their struggle because it does in a way imply that they're just as bad and its even.

Corbin is a politician, he should know how important language is. So either he is an idiot or those sentiments do actually exist in his mind.
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Old 16-08-2018, 07:08 PM #23
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And it's the one place in the Middle East where women can vote... and that's Arab Muslim women, as well as Jewish Israeli women... about one in five people in Israel are Arab.
It is a solitary bastion of Western civilisation in the Middle East, far from perfect, but the most unfairly maligned country on this planet, and - in my opinion - those who are maligning the loudest know the least about the truth concerning Israel and the Palestinian issue.
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Old 16-08-2018, 07:13 PM #24
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Gonna need a list of jeremy saying sorry....cause thats news to me.
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Old 16-08-2018, 07:22 PM #25
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Really disappointed he's caved into pressure. Criticising the Israeli government is NOT anti-Semitism
'Caved into pressure'? Corbyn has more front than Harrods and thicker skin than a Rhino and does not give two hoots what the world and his dog thinks.

The ONLY factor which has forced Corbyn to do a U-turn is the words of advice being whispered in his 'shell-like' by his cohorts that this issue is one 'step-too-far' and could now actually scupper his chances of becoming Prime Minister.

And THAT would render Corbyn as being of no more use to his Marxist backers.
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