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Alf · 26-11-2018, 07:45 PM

He's spent his entire career playing for one of the best club sides in the world, surrounded by great players like Xavi, Iniesta, Neymar, Ronaldinho, Suarez and Henry, winning most games they play against nobodies week in week out. But when it's come to playing at the top level of football (International level) the best of the best, he hasn't had what it takes to win anything.

He's not even in the top 20 post WW2 best players.

James · 26-11-2018, 07:59 PM

One of the top-four of all-time. If people are saying that then he is not overrated.

The top players usually end up playing for the best teams, so you can't hold that against him.

By the same token he might not have had the players around him at international level to win more there.

I think Maradona didn't play with many other great players when they won the World Cup, but Messi has had a longer career, being one of the very best, than Maradona.

Mystic Mock · 26-11-2018, 08:01 PM

Messi does seem to be a bit ropey at International level I'll give you that Alf.

However his own personal achievements at Barcelona are an incredible technical achievement, he isn't my favourite player to watch (personally I prefer to watch Aguero for Man City out of the Argentinian players) but I don't think that it can be denied that Messi will go down as a great for Barcelona fans and Football in general.

I would love to see him play in the Premier League however and see how he copes against the tougher mid-table teams compared to La Liga. But either way a great player as I've already stated.

Alf · 26-11-2018, 08:26 PM

Watch the entire highlight reel of a true great and tell me how Messi is better?

Youtube video

Alf · 27-11-2018, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Messi does seem to be a bit ropey at International level I'll give you that Alf.

However his own personal achievements at Barcelona are an incredible technical achievement, he isn't my favourite player to watch (personally I prefer to watch Aguero for Man City out of the Argentinian players) but I don't think that it can be denied that Messi will go down as a great for Barcelona fans and Football in general.

I would love to see him play in the Premier League however and see how he copes against the tougher mid-table teams compared to La Liga. But either way a great player as I've already stated.

Cristiano Ronaldo has proven himself a great player in the premier league, la Liga, The champions league and now proving it in serie A, not to mention leading his country to European championship glory. He, and not Messi will go down as the greatest of this generation.

James · 27-11-2018, 01:13 AM

Matthaus not mentioned here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...st_of_all_time

I'd say definitely the top four are in no particular order Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Pele and Maradona.

Mystic Mock · 27-11-2018, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf

Cristiano Ronaldo has proven himself a great player in the premier league, la Liga, The champions league and now proving it in serie A, not to mention leading his country to European championship glory. He, and not Messi will go down as the greatest of this generation.

Can't there be multiple great players in a generation?

James · 28-11-2018, 11:27 PM

Youtube video

He has one of the highest goal-scoring ratios of any player in the UCL / European Cup - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ue_top_scorers

Alf · 29-11-2018, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Youtube video

He has one of the highest goal-scoring ratios of any player in the UCL / European Cup - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ue_top_scorers

Do you think Messi could lead Espanol to two La liga titles? I use Espanol as an example because that's probably the equivalent of Napoli in Italy whom Maradona lead to two Serie a titles.

Would Messi have those scoring records playing for Espanol?

Nicky91 · 02-12-2018, 10:05 AM

same how we can debate about Gerd Muller not being a technically good player, but he did score 68 goals in 65 matches for the german national team, and his many many goals he scored for Bayern Munich which does make him an all time great

Messi is great for his style of play and his ability to score phenomenal goals

bots · 02-12-2018, 11:38 AM

A top 4 without Cruyff in it, is open to debate

I think Messi is a great player, but I dont think he or Ronaldo are top 4 material where Pele and Maradona, there is no doubt.

Alf · 05-12-2018, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicky91

same how we can debate about Gerd Muller not being a technically good player, but he did score 68 goals in 65 matches for the german national team, and his many many goals he scored for Bayern Munich which does make him an all time great

Messi is great for his style of play and his ability to score phenomenal goals

I'd put Muller above Messi.

Not only did he score ton's of goals for Munich helping them win lots of league titles and 3 European cups (scoring in 2 of the 3 finals), he was also prolific at the top level on the biggest stage, winning the Golden boot at the 1970 World cup and scoring the winning goal in the 74 final against your boys. In between that he also won the European championships with his country (he scored in that final too).

Zizu · 05-12-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf

I'd put Muller above Messi.

Not only did he score ton's of goals for Munich helping them win lots of league titles and 3 European cups (scoring in 2 of the 3 finals), he was also prolific at the top level on the biggest stage, winning the Golden boot at the 1970 World cup and scoring the winning goal in the 74 final against your boys. In between that he also won the European championships with his country (he scored in that final too).

Did you ever see him play !!?!

He was basically a goal hanger .. the kind of kid you hated when you played footie with your mates ..

Everyone would be running around , passing and tackling then the ball would go to him stood in the penalty box to score ..

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Crimson Dynamo · 05-12-2018, 08:34 AM

he is good but he is hardly Alan Devonshire

Alf · 05-12-2018, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizu

Did you ever see him play !!?!

He was basically a goal hanger .. the kind of kid you hated when you played footie with your mates ..

Everyone would be running around , passing and tackling then the ball would go to him stood in the penalty box to score ..

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That was his job for the team and he was a master of his art.

I never saw him play in his time, but have seen plenty of him on film, and as a football historian, I've researched his career.

Zizu · 05-12-2018, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf

That was his job for the team and he was a master of his art.

I never so him play in his time, but have seen plenty of him on film, and as a football historian, I've researched his career.

He was a great finisher ( not as good as Romario or Jimmy Greaves ) but great for his time .

He shouldn't be heard in the same sentence as Messi though imho

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Alf · 05-12-2018, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zizu

He was a great finisher ( not as good as Romario or Jimmy Greaves ) but great for his time .

He shouldn't be heard in the same sentence as Messi though imho

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He'd score double the amount of goals Messi scores if he was playing today, with the pitches they now play on, the ball they now play with and the rules and disciplinary in place now, that favours attacker.

Babayaro. · 05-12-2018, 09:32 AM

He's no Adrian Mutu

Zizu · 05-12-2018, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf

He'd score double the amount of goals Messi scores if he was playing today, with the pitches they now play on, the ball they now play with and the rules and disciplinary in place now, that favours attacker.

Who knows ... faster , better drilled defences / defenders ..

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