[reece(:]

Youtube video

[Marsh.]

Why not get a trans-athlete?

Or at least someone other than the twat that is India Willoughby speaking on behalf of transpeople in every god damn TV segment.

[UserSince2005]

It’s a shame all these women believe people with or who had a penis are so much better than them

[Cherie]

India and Sharon

Transgender Games are the way to go...

[Oliver_W]

The answer is "well, duh"

Biological males are (on average) stronger and faster than females, so of course transwomen have an advantage over women.

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Why not get a trans-athlete?

Or at least someone other than the twat that is India Willoughby speaking on behalf of transpeople in every god damn TV segment.

tbh, in the debates I've watched her in she hasn't been that bad (and is usually the voice of reason rofl)

[Elliot]

instead of looking at whether trans people fit into these systems, why not look at the systems themselves? or do people just wanna find as many ways as possible to dehumanise trans ppl

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Elliot

instead of looking at whether trans people fit into these systems, why not look at the systems themselves? or do people just wanna find as many ways as possible to dehumanise trans ppl

Explain?

[parmnion]

Yes, they do.

[Toy Soldier]

I don't think so to be honest, as the hormones make them physically weak like females.

[Kazanne]

Yes of course they do ,it's a no brainer really

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I don't think so to be honest, as the hormones make them physically weak like females.

Sharron puts a good argument across for benefits aside from strength. Bone structure, pelvis size, red blood cells etc.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

instead of looking at whether trans people fit into these systems, why not look at the systems themselves? or do people just wanna find as many ways as possible to dehumanise trans ppl

In what way are they being dehumanised?

What an odd conclusion to make.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Sharron puts a good argument across for benefits aside from strength. Bone structure, pelvis size, red blood cells etc.

There is no scientific evidence that proves that those don't also change with the introduction of hormones, and lots of evidence that suggests that transwomen are simply more determined and train harder.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There is no scientific evidence that proves that those don't also change with the introduction of hormones, and lots of evidence that suggests that transwomen are simply more determined and train harder.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Elliot

instead of looking at whether trans people fit into these systems, why not look at the systems themselves? or do people just wanna find as many ways as possible to dehumanise trans ppl

The fact that people are looking for a way that trans people can participate in sport on a level playing field is dehumanising?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

There is no scientific evidence that proves that those don't also change with the introduction of hormones, and lots of evidence that suggests that transwomen are simply more determined and train harder.

resorting to trolling now are we?

There are no long term studies that prove or disprove anything

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...d.php?t=354790

[LeatherTrumpet]

yes its a no brainer

[Ramsay]

Obviously

[Vienna]

Originally Posted by Cherie

resorting to trolling now are we?

There are no long term studies that prove or disprove anything

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...d.php?t=354790

http://www.teni.ie/attachments/9ea50...ef980047db.PDF

According to the above the effects of hormone therapy are very individual and there are no guarantees that such therapy puts transwomen on an equal playing field to those born as women. Who monitors they even take them? The outcome of such a “win’ will always be doubtful and deserving of scrutiny.

[smudgie]

Would it be fair to put a female to male trans in the boxing ring with a male opponent, I think not.
Same applies across all sports for me.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Would it be fair to put a female to male trans in the boxing ring with a male opponent, I think not.
Same applies across all sports for me.

Genuine question on that one though;

Would it be fair to put a female to male transexual in the boxing ring with a female opponent?

Do we just accept that there needs to be a "trans category" in sports? Or do we simply say that it's not appropriate for trans people to engage in professional sport at all? Isn't that a massive discrimination?

These are honest questions though; it's a hugely complex issue and I really don't know the answer. Despite my trolling above I've always been clear that I don't think it's particularly fair to have Male to Female transpeople in female branches of sport, because yes, there are clear physical advantages.

[Marsh.]

Well I would think a trans specific event would be the obvious solution. Just as they have Paralympics etc.

The only problem being the actual pool of trans athletes may be far too small.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Well I would think a trans specific event would be the obvious solution. Just as they have Paralympics etc.

The only problem being the actual pool of trans athletes may be far too small.

I'm sure if you think about that though Marsh you can see the problems there. People who transition do so to transition to the opposite gender... not to "become a trans". It's not supposed to be a third gender... that's sort of the point. I mean surely you realise that comparing it to a disability is (to use one of my most hated words) problematic?

I dunno. Like I said I can't figure out a working solution to this one that doesn't involve significant "othering". i.e. "I have to sign up for the Trans events because I'm not a man / woman, I am just a Trans".

And then, do you have a M2F category and a F2M category? Or do you just lump 'em all together and hope that it all hormonally and physically evens out?

[bitontheslide]

i think it's ridiculous that women are again having to fight against discrimination, and what I find most disturbing is that so many are happy with that discrimination just because it acts as an advantage to another discriminated group.