[spacebandit]

So should Emily haver been given the boot - the clear answer is yes, C4 had no choice, but by doing so it has to be seen as a knee-jerk reaction, as they must ignore context.

But in doing so Łndemol and C4 have now opened a Pandoras Box to put the complaints in.

Why ?, well Charley used the word herself, describing herself as a N***r about a week ago.

What Łndemol have now done is laid open a whole raft of accusations regarding censorship.

The incident was a world away from what happened in CBB5, contextually, so now C4 have been forced to put a blanket ban on a word - this does not bode well for some artistically worthy material

Who is allowed to say what ?, this discussion has been going on for years, but what this will come to is this : a caucasian contestant on BB was booted out for using the word n****r and another contestant "a person of colour" wasn't, though used the same word in the same context, i.e. during verbage.

This will inevitably fall back onto the risible "black people can't be racist" argument which frankly holds no water.

What do we censor next, songs ?

All rap songs go
All American based street poetry, the likes of Gil Scott Heron - goes.

Lets get more specific, how about Sly and the Family Stone ?, a superb band starting in the late 60's, their track "Don't Call Me N****r, Whitey", would anyone care to elucidate which of the epithets in that title is racist, or are they both ?, is it a racist song ? - its certainly a protest song, but if racist, the racist in regards to whom ?

How about Patti Smith and "Rock and Roll N***er" - anyone care to venture if that is a racist song based upon the title alone, what would happen if a HM ever mentioned that song by name, or the Sly Stone one ?.


The show is crippled, the "celebs" of CBB5 have seen to that.

Sad but true

[Slartibartfast]

Excellent post mate, well argued and sound reasoning.

And I like that song by Patti Smith, please don't let them ban it

[easypeasy]

theres just some words a white person cant say unless they are looking for trouble, they shouldnt be surprised if it smacks them back in the face later.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Slartibartfast
Excellent post mate, well argued and sound reasoning.

And I like that song by Patti Smith, please don't let them ban it

I was going to put the lyrics to Rock and Roll N****r in my post as it best illustrates how the word in context is not in itself racist, its the intent behind the word that makes it racist.

But I didn't think one post could handle that many asterisks, anyone who has heard the song will know what I mean.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by easypeasy
theres just some words a white person cant say unless they are looking for trouble, they shouldnt be surprised if it smacks them back in the face later.

and what about "people of colour" when speaking to white people ?

Honky ?
Whitey ?

Both have racist connotations..... it is the intent that makes the word racist, not the actual word itself

[cgimusic]

Why didn't Channel 4 ignore the problem and not broadcast it instead of making themselves look bad. After all OfCom on regulates broadcasting.

[GiRTh]

Not this one again.

[easypeasy]

well the word is gradually swerving away from its original meaning and purpose to refer to anybody who is deemed worthy of a place in the gutter, even eminem has the sense not to use the word though. its ok for freinds to jokingly put each other down with derogatory terms but only a fool would say the word to strangers or in mixed race company.

[GiRTh]

The third time I've posted this today:

How many times do i have to answer this one?

First of all, I have to point out that I'm of Jamaican ancestry. Now, this word was a word that I grew up hearing over and over again. No one uses this word like my mother. Trust me.

The whole point is that - when black people use this word we know what we are saying. When a white person uses this word we don't know what they're trying to say. When a black man call another black man the n word he is basically calling him an idiot or a fool. When a white person uses the word we do not know what they're trying to say and due to the origin of the word most black people will take offence. So my advise to white people is to avoid using this word in the presence of a black person because we don't know what you're trying to say by using this word. It's double standard, I know, but it's like telling racist jokes. Jewish people can tell Jewish Jokes, black people an tell black joke. Basically, if you're not one then avoid anything that could be construed as racist.

[the_chosen_one]

Originally posted by easypeasy
its ok for freinds to jokingly put each other down with derogatory terms but only a fool would say the word to strangers or in mixed race company.

So that creates a clear double standard by which you expect people to live. One race of people is exempt from using a word which another race is allowed to use, and everyone is supposed to understand their role.

To me, that theory is based on ignorance. Not your ignorance, easypeasy, the ignorance of those ignoring the double standard without striving for equality.

[easypeasy]

+1 karma for GIRTh, that explains it very clearly, as for being called "whitey" and taking offence at it......what a load of bs.
"honkey" doesnt offend me either, those two words dont have the historical connotations the n word does, a people ripped from their homeland and beaten and tortured into slavery and dehumanisation were targeted by one simple word to express their worth in the eyes of their "masters".
If a black person called me a "cracker" i would take great offence though.....thats a real insult to a white person.

[chelsie]

Originally posted by spacebandit

and what about "people of colour" when speaking to white people ?

Honky ?
Whitey ?

Both have racist connotations..... it is the intent that makes the word racist, not the actual word itself

But what 'people of colour' do you know actually use the word honky?

Anyway Honkey is more of a derogatory term against the polish immigrants than as white people on the whole.

In no way can you compare the N word to either the words 'whitey' or 'honkey'- A word that carries sooo much history...It's basically a very offensive and hurtful word.

[GiRTh]

Thanx for the karma easy.

[Emilee]

Originally posted by spacebandit
"black people can't be racist"

that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. of course black can be rasist to white and completly the oppostie way round.

[Lil-Lindz]

I dont like the view that black people cannot be racist, anyone can be racist, racism is is being nasty to someone because of their race, so black people can actually be racist
and i totally agree that this whole racism thing was bound to pop up again, i just hope that the media doesnt blow it out of porportion like they allways do. It was a relatively small incident in comparison to the racism row in january, but i think the way BB handled it just goes to show that there will be no tolerance to any racism in what ever context
i am also annoyed that BB will be showing the incident on the hilights show, all it will cause is controversy and cause yet more complaints

[Bells]

I don't think it will, simply because BB has already taken action and ejected Emily, so complaining won't really do much. Because the situation was dealt with, we can move on. And I think viewers are entitled to seeing what actually happened rather than being kept in the dark about it - that'll only lead us to continuously discussing it rather than putting it aside.

[Rory]

Great post. I do agree about the "black people can't be racist" statement is so false. Emily didn't say it in an aggressive manner, and I don't think she should have been removed.

C4 will most likely continue to get complaints about the show if something like this is taken so serious. What happened to Jack in CBB5?

[Wiglet]

This has been gone over and over again there are TWO differing variations of this N word spelt TWO differing ways. Listen to Girth earlier or look the words (Adjective and noun) in the dictionary.

Is it worth racking over the same argument unless someone has anything useful to actually add?

[Lil-Lindz]

Originally posted by Rory
Great post. I do agree about the "black people can't be racist" statement is so false. Emily didn't say it in an aggressive manner, and I don't think she should have been removed.

C4 will most likely continue to get complaints about the show if something like this is taken so serious. What happened to Jack in CBB5?

but if they didnt take it so seriously they would get accused of failing to act, which will lead to another racism row and then BB being taken off the air
and no one wants that

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Emilee

that is the stupidest thing ive ever heard. of course black can be rasist to white and completly the oppostie way round.

If you intend commenting on something - might be wise to include the whole sentence

Originally posted by spacebandit



This will inevitably fall back onto the risible "black people can't be racist" argument which frankly holds no water.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by chelsie

But what 'people of colour' do you know actually use the word honky?

Anyway Honkey is more of a derogatory term against the polish immigrants than as white people on the whole.

In no way can you compare the N word to either the words 'whitey' or 'honkey'- A word that carries sooo much history...It's basically a very offensive and hurtful word.

Take a look at literally hundreds of movies, all american, from the 1970's, "honky" and "Whitey" are used as derogatory terms.

Whats good for the goose...............

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by spacebandit


Take a look at literally hundreds of movies, all american, from the 1970's, "honky" and "Whitey" are used as derogatory terms.

Whats good for the goose...............

Do you think the two words have the same impact?

[spacebandit]

As an aside, do we ban or censor the movie "The Dambusters" ?,

Guy Gibsons dog, a black labrador was called "N****r"

[Rory]

Originally posted by Lil-Lindz

but if they didnt take it so seriously they would get accused of failing to act, which will lead to another racism row and then BB being taken off the air
and no one wants that

I doubt there would be any harsh feelings afterwards, and if Charley took offense to it then she should have been removed.

They didn't remove jack when he made his comment about Shilpa..

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by GiRTh

Do you think the two words have the same impact?

It depends on the intent and the context, as I state in my OP

If it didn't then why hasn't Charley been booted ?. she used it days ago