[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

another woman looking for money at the expense of women who do get abused

Because as we all know, celebs never ever actually act innapropriately towards women, its always just 'for the money'

This despite there being video proof that he did actually touch her, though its not quite as clear if he touched her breast, but his hands were in that general area so of course its possible.

[Ammi]

...I think for me it’s obvious why the allegations against him...whether they’re found to be true or not...(..because it’s impossible to see from the vids shown online...)...he did (unnecessarily) laid his hands on her and could have touched her breast...and again, it’s why (..some..)..men feel the need to do this...don’t touch and there will be no doubt or question I guess is the moral of the story...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Because as we all know, celebs never ever actually act innapropriately towards women, its always just 'for the money'

This despite there being video proof that he did actually touch her, though its not quite as clear if he touched her breast, but his hands were in that general area so of course its possible.

he touched her the guy his partner and probably hundreds of people that day

to try and say he groped her is just bonkers

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he touched her the guy his partner and probably hundreds of people that day

to try and say he groped her is just bonkers

And this means its fine to touch the thigh/breast of a random woman? Just because you are a touchy feely person who..well touches everyone wether they want it or not?

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And this means its fine to touch the thigh/breast of a random woman? Just because you are a touchy feely person who..well touches everyone wether they want it or not?

he did not touch her breast and he was with his partner, she invaded their space


just wasting court time and all she wants is to be paid off

cynical disgusting money money money

[Ammi]

...hopefully this sort of thing being highlighted as it’s being with this ambiguous allegation...will help (some) Male mindsets into realising how important it is to keep their bodies within their own personal space and not touch someone unless and until that person invites it...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hopefully this sort of thing being highlighted as it’s being with this ambiguous allegation...will help (some) Male mindsets into realising how important it is to keep their bodies within their own personal space and not touch someone unless and until that person invites it...

No, it will just bring out more 'men cannot even look at women without being accused of raping them!' types..most likely. And all the excuses too. Honestly, men who read stories about this/actual rape and conclude that its men who we should feel sorry for as its horrible to expect them to..not randomly touch women..I would avoid like the plague in real life tbh. Tha mindset required to jump from reading a story of assault and concluding that its 'poor men' is..dodgy. As is the need some seem to have to come into threads about sexual assault and 'remind' us that women do it too and that not all men rape. Noont thinks all men do. Its just a way to get people to stop discussing the actual story and to go in these roundabouts that always happen on threads where a woman alleges something.

Anyway, leaving again. Kind of kicking myself for replying again when I said I would stay away. As these always just go one way, and its a way that makes me rage a bit so best to not be involved

Edit. Though..

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he did not touch her breast and he was with his partner, she invaded their space

There is a point on the video where it does look to me that he could have touched her tit. Video quality is bad, as is the angle mind, but yeah, its possible from watching it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think for me it’s obvious why the allegations against him...whether they’re found to be true or not...(..because it’s impossible to see from the vids shown online...)...he did (unnecessarily) laid his hands on her and could have touched her breast...and again, it’s why (..some..)..men feel the need to do this...don’t touch and there will be no doubt or question I guess is the moral of the story...

Yes to be fair I do agree with that Ammi, whether or not the claimants are "in it for the right reason", he did quite unnecessarily put his hand on her leg (and quite high up her leg? ) and it's really not something I understand at all. I personally am not a huge fan of being touched by people I don't know fairly well and it baffles me that people think it's OK to get touchy-feely with a stranger without obvious permission.

So while I don't think he was deliberately being a pervert or trying to grope her, I agree with the general message that people should just stop being so damned "handsy" all the time. I've even noticed it a few times watching things like Graham Norton... a male guest putting their hand on a female guest's knee while they're talking. Obviously they don't mean anything by it but often the other person looks clearly uncomfortable, and I have no idea how people can be so unaware that they would miss that??

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

No, it will just bring out more 'men cannot even look at women without being accused of raping them!' types..most likely. And all the excuses too. Honestly, men who read stories about this/actual rape and conclude that its men who we should feel sorry for as its horrible to expect them to..not randomly touch women..I would avoid like the plague in real life tbh. Tha mindset required to jump from reading a story of assault and concluding that its 'poor men' is..dodgy. As is the need some seem to have to come into threads about sexual assault and 'remind' us that women do it too and that not all men rape. Noont thinks all men do. Its just a way to get people to stop discussing the actual story and to go in these roundabouts that always happen on threads where a woman alleges something.

It's just rooted in insecurity more than anything else, honestly.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes to be fair I do agree with that Ammi, whether or not the claimants are "in it for the right reason", he did quite unnecessarily put his hand on her leg (and quite high up her leg? ) and it's really not something I understand at all. I personally am not a huge fan of being touched by people I don't know fairly well and it baffles me that people think it's OK to get touchy-feely with a stranger without obvious permission.

So while I don't think he was deliberately being a pervert or trying to grope her, I agree with the general message that people should just stop being so damned "handsy" all the time. I've even noticed it a few times watching things like Graham Norton... a male guest putting their hand on a female guest's knee while they're talking. Obviously they don't mean anything by it but often the other person looks clearly uncomfortable, and I have no idea how people can be so unaware that they would miss that??

Your reading of body language from the comfort of your armchair is not that reliable TS

You have zero clue if someone is uncomfortable, dont project your insecurities on others and then play it as fact

[Ammi]

..I do understand your ‘rants’ Vicky.....I mean I completely understand them and not just because of any personal experiences you’ve said...it’s so, so often been said how ‘women should keep themselves safe’...how they shouldn’t wear certain things or go certain places or say certain things or act certain ways...or etc etc...?...all of the things that are listed that make them vulnerable apparently to (some) males...but when it’s the reverse like this is of him ‘placing himself in a vulnerable situation by touching her at all..’...it’s all about the money honey and her, her, her...can’t win for can’t winning...

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

he did not touch her breast and he was with his partner, she invaded their space


just wasting court time and all she wants is to be paid off

cynical disgusting money money money

Yes she did, it makes you wonder if it was a set up

[LeatherTrumpet]

"Cuba Gooding Jr's lawyer says more than two hours of video surveillance from inside a New York bar shows the woman who has accused Gooding of drunkenly groping her breast was "stalking" Gooding and his girlfriend all night."




https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2...er/1460216001/

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Your reading of body language from the comfort of your armchair is not that reliable TS

You have zero clue if someone is uncomfortable, dont project your insecurities on others and then play it as fact

The point is that it's irrelevant whether or not one person is comfortable with it or not; if the people aren't established friends who know each other's boundaries then the person engaging in the physical contact has NO IDEA whether or not the other person will be comfortable. It's a coin toss. Plenty of people are fine with it, but that isn't a reason to think that everyone is fine with it or SHOULD be fine with it, and if you take the gamble of entering a stranger's personal space then you can't be surprised if the reaction isn't a good one. It's over-familiar. I can't fathom why anyone would take issue with the idea that people should get to know each other and their boundaries before getting touchy?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"Cuba Gooding Jr's lawyer says more than two hours of video surveillance from inside a New York bar shows the woman who has accused Gooding of drunkenly groping her breast was "stalking" Gooding and his girlfriend all night."




https://eu.usatoday.com/story/life/2...er/1460216001/

Sounds like what I said it was ..... A set up

[LeatherTrumpet]

So he was quietly sitting having a drink with his gf and some drunk woman rocks up uninvited ans almost sits on his gf's lap and he thinks great now i can grope her and no one will notice?

i mean do i need to go on??

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..I do understand your ‘rants’ Vicky.....I mean I completely understand them and not just because of any personal experiences you’ve said...it’s so, so often been said how ‘women should keep themselves safe’...how they shouldn’t wear certain things or go certain places or say certain things or act certain ways...or etc etc...?...all of the things that are listed that make them vulnerable apparently to (some) males...but when it’s the reverse like this is of him ‘placing himself in a vulnerable situation by touching her at all..’...it’s all about the money honey and her, her, her...can’t win for can’t winning...

Exactly Ammi.

Someone back along the thread (maybe two people actually) said that this kind of thing interferes with "real" victims getting justice but I have to ask, when is there ever a real victim?? Honestly I have never (that I can recall) saw any stories like these or of rape accusations being taken seriously on here, not a single one jumps to mind. So they were all liars then? That doesn't seem likely imo

[Ammi]

...so I guess she will have forced him to touch her thigh and to take her hand and possible touch her breast...the ‘two hours’ will show that sHE MADe him do those things and MADE him assume it was okay to lay his hands on her in any familiarity way whatsoever...sadly that real issue which (some) me do, do with women will be brushed aside and not treated with the seriousness it should be...

[Ammi]

...#metoo...?...no for goodness sake...’we make the rules for ourselves and for you too..’...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so I guess she will have forced him to touch her thigh and to take her hand and possible touch her breast...the ‘two hours’ will show that sHE MADe him do those things and MADE him assume it was okay to lay his hands on her in any familiarity way whatsoever...sadly that real issue which (some) me do, do with women will be brushed aside and not treated with the seriousness it should be...

Clearly because she's a fan and was a bit star struck that means he's allowed touch her Ammi

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...so I guess she will have forced him to touch her thigh and to take her hand and possible touch her breast…the ‘two hours’ will show that sHE MADe him do those things and MADE him assume it was okay to lay his hands on her in any familiarity way whatsoever...sadly that real issue which (some) me do, do with women will be brushed aside and not treated with the seriousness it should be…

wait

this is now turned into ''lets shove the lady from victim into the bad person scenario''

[Ammi]

...(..if he’s guilty of what he’s being accused of..)...then not touching someone inappropriately means even when it’s a fan or etc...inappropriate remains inappropriate...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

wait

this is now turned into ''lets shove the lady from victim into the bad person scenario''

...yeah sadly, Nicky... and things that should be addressed and need to be addressed will just be brushed aside, I fear...

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...yeah sadly, Nicky... and things that should be addressed and need to be addressed will just be brushed aside, I fear...

these injustices make me sympathize with women more and more

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So he was quietly sitting having a drink with his gf and some drunk woman rocks up uninvited ans almost sits on his gf's lap and he thinks great now i can grope her and no one will notice?

i mean do i need to go on??

Honestly it's two entirely separate debates though. We can briefly acknowledge yes that people in the public eye should be able to go out with friends and family and not have their space & time invaded by fans / the general public... that's fair enough...

...it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it was appropriate for him to touch her thigh as he (wuite clearly IMO) does in the video? AND I'm not even saying that his intent was to cause offense or make her uncomfortable or even necessarily "being a perv" or anything like that and I also don't think this is an example of someone who should now be "cancelled" or face prosecution...

...what it IS, though, is an opportunity to shine a light on what is a very real problem - people not realising that they should keep their hands to themselves. That's all that needs to happen! Some sort of acknowledgement that it's a good idea to respect other people's personal space. And an acknowledgement that while [obligatory appeasement] there are plenty of examples of people invading each other's space... there IS a larger problem with males (especially older males) putting their hands round waists / on legs etc. uninvited. Is it because they don't realise? Is it because they're from "another time" where that was just the norm? Maybe, but I'm inclined to think that "back when it was the norm" it was simply less common for people to admit that it made them uncomfortable, rather than it NOT making them uncomfortable, and now that many people DO admit that over-familiar touch makes them uncomfortable the only sensible and respectable thing for people to do going forward is to stop doing it. WHY is there a backlash against that? I genuinely don't get it. " I'm not allowed to touch strangers on the knee any more and that's my fave!" .