[Swan]

Originally Posted by Ant.

It's allowing a person to realise they're not alone and are part of a community. It's achieving validation. How do people calling themselves gay affect you?

Prejudice doesn't exist? How doesn't it? Was the fact I was called a ****** for being on a date with a guy not count as prejudice? Is the fact people are disowned and kicked out of their houses for being gay even in this country not qualify as prejudice? I'm really trying to understand your logic here - prejudice exists in the western world.

But people ARE defined by their sexuality. Their sexuality can represent years of their life figuring themselves out, bullying, and discrimination. That changes people and if people didn't want to be defined by that, trust me, they wouldn't.

Re-read my post.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Swan

So by labelling oneself 'gay' is achieving what exactly? I wouldn't argue prejudice still exists but i feel energy and resources are very much misused when it comes to gay rights in the western world. Isn't the whole argument to educate the world on how one shouldn't be defined by their sexuality?

...sexuality is not a label though, it’s a descriptive of just a part of who someone is ...and for some it’s a very important part because it’s something there has not always been acceptance of...(...and still isn’t always..)...and something the laws have not allowed for either...I’m not sure how we’ll ever get to the stage of ‘educating the world on how one shouldn’t be defined by their sexuality’...I mean even the starting point of that..?...while their is still very much a mindset of it not being covered is schools, in children’s stories and children’s TV etc...in the same proportion of a romantic heterosexuality...

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Swan

Re-read my post.

But my point still stands. The money used in the 'western world' contributes to supporting LGBT people through charity and accommodation for people who have been disowned. You can argue some.of the money spent could be used elsewhere, but not 'very much', surely?

[Rob!]

I know, it’s not like the straight people of the world get their moment in the spotlight for putting up with all the murder, hatred and general segregation they have to put up with because of who they fall in love with is it? So unfair.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Ant.

But my point still stands. The money used in the 'western world' contributes to supporting LGBT people through charity and accommodation for people who have been disowned. You can argue some.of the money spent could be used elsewhere, but not 'very much', surely?

Oh i agree, i've had read stories of teens who have been disowned by parents, family members for being gay (mostly due to religious beliefs) so i'm all for charities helping those who are struggling. However, when i say 'resources' im more referring to the thousands of people marching through the streets of London, Brighton etc celebrating their sexuality. On the whole people in the UK are perfectly fine with another's sexual orientation, prejudice does and will always exist to a certain extent, that's a fact of life unfortunately i just wouldn't waste my time on people who don't accept me for who i am. However, the middle east is a different story altogether and that's where gay rights should be fought for, that's where the thousands should go and show it's 'ok to be gay'. People are treated horrendously in certain countries due to sexual orientation.

[Tom4784]

People who see someone celebrating who they are or celebrating how far their kind has come as them 'throwing it in their faces' often don't realise that it isn't about them and do everything they can to make it about them.

If someone sees Pride as an attack on themselves then they are the ones with the issue, if you have a problem with gay representation, then look the other way. No one is forcing you to participate and no one is forcing you to oppose it and it will happen regardless of your views because the LGBT are becoming more accepted and mainstream every day and people who dislike that have just got to get over their bigotry.

Let those of us who this world has often opposed our very existence have our month and be grateful you don't have to fight the battles we have for equal rights.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Rob!

I know, it’s not like the straight people of the world get their moment in the spotlight for putting up with all the murder, hatred and general segregation they have to put up with because of who they fall in love with is it? So unfair.

Actually there are plenty of straight people who have been put through hell because of who they've fallen in love with. Social class, race, education, religion etc...

[Marsh.]

It is laughable when the "norm" is heterosexual that you feature a few homosexuals to balance it out or a couple of lesbians in an advert and it's "shoving it down our throats" or "overdoing it".

Read your own posts for why some gay people might feel the need to speak a little louder about who they are. They're constantly made to feel like they have to keep it hidden or just not mention it.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

People who see someone celebrating who they are or celebrating how far their kind has come as them 'throwing it in their faces' often don't realise that it isn't about them and do everything they can to make it about them.

If someone sees Pride as an attack on themselves then they are the ones with the issue, if you have a problem with gay representation, then look the other way. No one is forcing you to participate and no one is forcing you to oppose it and it will happen regardless of your views because the LGBT are becoming more accepted and mainstream every day and people who dislike that have just got to get over their bigotry.

Let those of us who this world has often opposed our very existence have our month and be grateful you don't have to fight the battles we have for equal rights.

My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Swan

My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?

equality is about everyone being treated the same way

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

equality is about everyone being treated the same way

Oh ffs.

That's my whole point

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Swan

Oh i agree, i've had read stories of teens who have been disowned by parents, family members for being gay (mostly due to religious beliefs) so i'm all for charities helping those who are struggling. However, when i say 'resources' im more referring to the thousands of people marching through the streets of London, Brighton etc celebrating their sexuality. On the whole people in the UK are perfectly fine with another's sexual orientation, prejudice does and will always exist to a certain extent, that's a fact of life unfortunately i just wouldn't waste my time on people who don't accept me for who i am. However, the middle east is a different story altogether and that's where gay rights should be fought for, that's where the thousands should go and show it's 'ok to be gay'. People are treated horrendously in certain countries due to sexual orientation.

If you're referring to Pride, I will agree that, to some extent, it's become a shell of what it was - with some people choosing to go to Manchester Pride because of Ariana Grande's presence and whatnot. But I'm that note, I'm curious as to what money could do for the Middle East? I've read news articles of how activists have brought about change in such countries but can money truly change the laws there? I am not by any means saying money invested in such causes is money wasted - not to any degree, but likewise the money would not be wasted here (not saying you think the money would be wasted here, that is).

I think money will always be an issue. Would the billion of dollars spent on the Lord of the Rings TV series be better spent elsewhere? Almost most definitely. And while it can be argued Pride (if that is what you're referring to) could be better spent elsewhere and is, in some cases, not what it set out to be, Pride does increase awareness and celebrates the LGBT community - it is not necessarily money down the drain. I do, however, agree for a push for more activism in the Middle East, and more money should be invested in it

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Swan

Oh ffs.

That's my whole point

As long as they don't mention the fact they are gay?

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Swan

My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?

But is equality not recognising differences and accepting them? I understand the sentiment, but can we truly see a disabled person and an able person as equal? Would equality not be accommodating to people's differences so that they are included, I.e. making a job more suitable for a disabled person?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Swan

My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?

Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.

We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.

Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.

[Ant.]

Swan, I appreciate your sentiment but your original post seems to focus more on the fact people are proud of their identity and are open about it

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.

We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.

Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.

you articulated that perfectly

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.

We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.

Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.

Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?

I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.

If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.

It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Swan

Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?

I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.

If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.

It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.

[Marsh.]

But you clearly DO care about people's sexuality if you feel gay people are "throwing it in your face" by simply being out and proud.

[Ant.]

Are you not judging people for choosing to use their identity?

[Marsh.]

"I don't like labels. I see a man, not a sexuality."

This statement should mean you treat everyone the same regardless of sexuality. But given your other posts what it actually means is you'd rather gay people don't tell you they're gay or at least make it known in their actions (idk like holding hands with their partner). It is NOT the same thing and you getting defensive about it will not change the homophobia in your posts in this thread.

[Swan]

So a sexuality is an identity now?

[Elliot]

people only have to make it clear they're gay because heterosexuality is assumed

[Ant.]

Originally Posted by Swan

So a sexuality is an identity now?

It's what people identify as so yes?

Also why are you being so pedantic and ignoring half the points made?