Notices

Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-07-2019, 01:29 PM #26
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant. View Post
It's allowing a person to realise they're not alone and are part of a community. It's achieving validation. How do people calling themselves gay affect you?

Prejudice doesn't exist? How doesn't it? Was the fact I was called a ****** for being on a date with a guy not count as prejudice? Is the fact people are disowned and kicked out of their houses for being gay even in this country not qualify as prejudice? I'm really trying to understand your logic here - prejudice exists in the western world.

But people ARE defined by their sexuality. Their sexuality can represent years of their life figuring themselves out, bullying, and discrimination. That changes people and if people didn't want to be defined by that, trust me, they wouldn't.
Re-read my post.
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:31 PM #27
Ammi's Avatar
Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64,075


Ammi Ammi is offline
Quand il pleut, il pleut
Ammi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64,075


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
So by labelling oneself 'gay' is achieving what exactly? I wouldn't argue prejudice still exists but i feel energy and resources are very much misused when it comes to gay rights in the western world. Isn't the whole argument to educate the world on how one shouldn't be defined by their sexuality?
...sexuality is not a label though, it’s a descriptive of just a part of who someone is ...and for some it’s a very important part because it’s something there has not always been acceptance of...(...and still isn’t always..)...and something the laws have not allowed for either...I’m not sure how we’ll ever get to the stage of ‘educating the world on how one shouldn’t be defined by their sexuality’...I mean even the starting point of that..?...while their is still very much a mindset of it not being covered is schools, in children’s stories and children’s TV etc...in the same proportion of a romantic heterosexuality...
Ammi is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:33 PM #28
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
Re-read my post.
But my point still stands. The money used in the 'western world' contributes to supporting LGBT people through charity and accommodation for people who have been disowned. You can argue some.of the money spent could be used elsewhere, but not 'very much', surely?
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:44 PM #29
Rob!'s Avatar
Rob! Rob! is offline
No filter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,771

Favourites (more):
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Amanda Barrie


Rob! Rob! is offline
No filter
Rob!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,771

Favourites (more):
CBB22: Kirstie Alley
CBB21: Amanda Barrie


Default

I know, it’s not like the straight people of the world get their moment in the spotlight for putting up with all the murder, hatred and general segregation they have to put up with because of who they fall in love with is it? So unfair.
__________________
Rob! is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:47 PM #30
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant. View Post
But my point still stands. The money used in the 'western world' contributes to supporting LGBT people through charity and accommodation for people who have been disowned. You can argue some.of the money spent could be used elsewhere, but not 'very much', surely?
Oh i agree, i've had read stories of teens who have been disowned by parents, family members for being gay (mostly due to religious beliefs) so i'm all for charities helping those who are struggling. However, when i say 'resources' im more referring to the thousands of people marching through the streets of London, Brighton etc celebrating their sexuality. On the whole people in the UK are perfectly fine with another's sexual orientation, prejudice does and will always exist to a certain extent, that's a fact of life unfortunately i just wouldn't waste my time on people who don't accept me for who i am. However, the middle east is a different story altogether and that's where gay rights should be fought for, that's where the thousands should go and show it's 'ok to be gay'. People are treated horrendously in certain countries due to sexual orientation.
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:51 PM #31
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Default

People who see someone celebrating who they are or celebrating how far their kind has come as them 'throwing it in their faces' often don't realise that it isn't about them and do everything they can to make it about them.

If someone sees Pride as an attack on themselves then they are the ones with the issue, if you have a problem with gay representation, then look the other way. No one is forcing you to participate and no one is forcing you to oppose it and it will happen regardless of your views because the LGBT are becoming more accepted and mainstream every day and people who dislike that have just got to get over their bigotry.

Let those of us who this world has often opposed our very existence have our month and be grateful you don't have to fight the battles we have for equal rights.
Tom4784 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:51 PM #32
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob! View Post
I know, it’s not like the straight people of the world get their moment in the spotlight for putting up with all the murder, hatred and general segregation they have to put up with because of who they fall in love with is it? So unfair.
Actually there are plenty of straight people who have been put through hell because of who they've fallen in love with. Social class, race, education, religion etc...
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:52 PM #33
Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Default

It is laughable when the "norm" is heterosexual that you feature a few homosexuals to balance it out or a couple of lesbians in an advert and it's "shoving it down our throats" or "overdoing it".

Read your own posts for why some gay people might feel the need to speak a little louder about who they are. They're constantly made to feel like they have to keep it hidden or just not mention it.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:56 PM #34
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
People who see someone celebrating who they are or celebrating how far their kind has come as them 'throwing it in their faces' often don't realise that it isn't about them and do everything they can to make it about them.

If someone sees Pride as an attack on themselves then they are the ones with the issue, if you have a problem with gay representation, then look the other way. No one is forcing you to participate and no one is forcing you to oppose it and it will happen regardless of your views because the LGBT are becoming more accepted and mainstream every day and people who dislike that have just got to get over their bigotry.

Let those of us who this world has often opposed our very existence have our month and be grateful you don't have to fight the battles we have for equal rights.
My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 01:59 PM #35
Nicky91's Avatar
Nicky91 Nicky91 is offline
Zumi Zimi Zami
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Brabant, Netherlands
Posts: 63,186

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Paul
Strictly 2020: HRVY


Nicky91 Nicky91 is offline
Zumi Zimi Zami
Nicky91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Brabant, Netherlands
Posts: 63,186

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Paul
Strictly 2020: HRVY


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
equality is about everyone being treated the same way
__________________

Taking part in Strictly Jake's Tibb does Strictly Game.
Nicky91 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:00 PM #36
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicky91 View Post
equality is about everyone being treated the same way
Oh ffs.

That's my whole point
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:04 PM #37
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
Oh i agree, i've had read stories of teens who have been disowned by parents, family members for being gay (mostly due to religious beliefs) so i'm all for charities helping those who are struggling. However, when i say 'resources' im more referring to the thousands of people marching through the streets of London, Brighton etc celebrating their sexuality. On the whole people in the UK are perfectly fine with another's sexual orientation, prejudice does and will always exist to a certain extent, that's a fact of life unfortunately i just wouldn't waste my time on people who don't accept me for who i am. However, the middle east is a different story altogether and that's where gay rights should be fought for, that's where the thousands should go and show it's 'ok to be gay'. People are treated horrendously in certain countries due to sexual orientation.
If you're referring to Pride, I will agree that, to some extent, it's become a shell of what it was - with some people choosing to go to Manchester Pride because of Ariana Grande's presence and whatnot. But I'm that note, I'm curious as to what money could do for the Middle East? I've read news articles of how activists have brought about change in such countries but can money truly change the laws there? I am not by any means saying money invested in such causes is money wasted - not to any degree, but likewise the money would not be wasted here (not saying you think the money would be wasted here, that is).

I think money will always be an issue. Would the billion of dollars spent on the Lord of the Rings TV series be better spent elsewhere? Almost most definitely. And while it can be argued Pride (if that is what you're referring to) could be better spent elsewhere and is, in some cases, not what it set out to be, Pride does increase awareness and celebrates the LGBT community - it is not necessarily money down the drain. I do, however, agree for a push for more activism in the Middle East, and more money should be invested in it
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:06 PM #38
Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
Oh ffs.

That's my whole point
As long as they don't mention the fact they are gay?
Marsh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:06 PM #39
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
But is equality not recognising differences and accepting them? I understand the sentiment, but can we truly see a disabled person and an able person as equal? Would equality not be accommodating to people's differences so that they are included, I.e. making a job more suitable for a disabled person?
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:07 PM #40
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Tom4784 Tom4784 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 45,095
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
My point has been completely lost here.

I don't care if people are gay or not, i see people as PEOPLE. Isn't that what equal rights is all about? That we are ALL equal? Isn't this what the fight is all about? If so then it's working right?
Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.

We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.

Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.
Tom4784 is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:07 PM #41
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Swan, I appreciate your sentiment but your original post seems to focus more on the fact people are proud of their identity and are open about it
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:08 PM #42
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.

We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.

Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.
you articulated that perfectly
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:18 PM #43
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
Your view is one I've heard often by people who pretend to be all for diversity but as a way to keep the LGBT where they can't see or hear them.

We are not equal and we shouldn't be silent just because you feel attacked by more representation then we had before. What you are arguing for is essentially silencing us under a flag of false equality. Straight couples are not attacked on buses for being straight, they aren't killed across the world for being straight and they haven't had to fight for basic rights nor do they have to worry about being attacked and/or killed if they hold their partner's hand in public or show any kind of affection that could 'give them away'.

Your view minimizes the battles LGBT fought to get what we have now, it minimizes a history of blood and sacrifice and it minimises what we have suffered to get to this point.
Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?

I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.

If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.

It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:19 PM #44
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
Are you saying by not caring about a persons sexuality that im not all for diversity?

I honesty thought the whole 'movement' was to not judge or to be judged, yet you are judging me for my opinion.

If a person kicks a dog, to me they are a piece of sh*t, a bad human being, i wouldn't ask if they were gay or not it wouldn't matter, they're still a piece of sh*t to me.

It's almost like if someone is not thinking the way you think they should you'll go in for the attack, it's worrying ironic. I am not attacking you for being gay, quite the opposite actually.
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:19 PM #45
Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Default

But you clearly DO care about people's sexuality if you feel gay people are "throwing it in your face" by simply being out and proud.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:20 PM #46
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Are you not judging people for choosing to use their identity?
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:22 PM #47
Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Marsh. Marsh. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 79,984


Default

"I don't like labels. I see a man, not a sexuality."

This statement should mean you treat everyone the same regardless of sexuality. But given your other posts what it actually means is you'd rather gay people don't tell you they're gay or at least make it known in their actions (idk like holding hands with their partner). It is NOT the same thing and you getting defensive about it will not change the homophobia in your posts in this thread.
Marsh. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:22 PM #48
Swan's Avatar
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Swan Swan is offline
Senior Member
Swan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London
Posts: 6,918

Favourites:
CBB2024: Marisha Wallace
Default

So a sexuality is an identity now?
Swan is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:23 PM #49
Elliot's Avatar
Elliot Elliot is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7,608

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
Love Island 5: Amber
Elliot Elliot is offline
Senior Member
Elliot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 7,608

Favourites (more):
BB2023: Yinrun
Love Island 5: Amber
Default

people only have to make it clear they're gay because heterosexuality is assumed
Elliot is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Old 01-07-2019, 02:25 PM #50
Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Ant. Ant. is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 17,838

Favourites (more):
CBB17: Tiffany Pollard
CBB16: Natasha Hamilton


Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swan View Post
So a sexuality is an identity now?
It's what people identify as so yes?

Also why are you being so pedantic and ignoring half the points made?
Ant. is offline   Reply With QuoteReply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark/share this topic

Tags
lgbt

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
 

About Us ThisisBigBrother.com

"Big Brother and UK Television Forum. Est. 2001"

 

© 2023
no new posts