[Alf]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Since the 80s there's been those who never wanted the UK in the EU or EEC either, going on moaning for decade after decade.

Even following a near 67% to 33% vote to be in the EEC.

So I'll take no lectures from brexiteers re moaning.

Political parties can put a referendum for a return to the EU in their manifesto at the next General Election, you can go out and vote for that party. But right now, we're still waiting for the the result of the last referendum to be implemented.

Play fair, and we'll all get along better.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Well check ya self when ya pump it out next time.

Again, that doesn't work either since I only call out whataboutism when the context is correct.

By all means though, you can explain to me why you think I'm wrong and that I'm guilty of whataboutism myself with the post you quoted and called as such.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

Political parties can put a referendum for a return to the EU in their manifesto at the next General Election, you can go out and vote for that party. But right now, we're still waiting for the the result of the last referendum to be implemented.

Play fair, and we'll all get along better.

Shutting down the government to prevent democracy from happening isn't fair though. You're not asking people to 'play fair' you're telling them to be silent and compliant with the regime's actions.

What about Brexiters who don't want a no deal brexit? Why is your idea of what Brexit should be more important than theirs?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Again, that doesn't work either since I only call out whataboutism when the context is correct.

By all means though, you can explain to me why you think I'm wrong and that I'm guilty of whataboutism myself with the post you quoted and called as such.

Whatifary. ..not whataboutary. ..

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Whatifary. ..not whataboutary. ..

Why don't you try justifying why what I said counts as 'whatifary' then?

[michael21]

Originally Posted by WickedSkengMan

So he can focus on Brexit without Corbyns childish tactics

Time for the queen to sort this mess out

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Why don't you try justifying why what I said counts as 'whatifary' then?

Cause you said what if the tables were the other way around or something like that.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by arista

Owen Jones Speaking Live outside Parliament
this evening.

Am I the only one concerned for this mans life?... Like there’s standing up for what you believe in and there’s making yourself an actual target.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Shutting down the government to prevent democracy from happening isn't fair though. You're not asking people to 'play fair' you're telling them to be silent and compliant with the regime's actions.

What about Brexiters who don't want a no deal brexit? Why is your idea of what Brexit should be more important than theirs?

You've saved me a lot of typing.
Saying what I wanted to but I'd likely have gone on and on.

I agree with all the above in your post.

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Withano

Am I the only one concerned for this mans life?... Like there’s standing up for what you believe in and there’s making yourself an actual target.

We need more like him tbh

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

We need more like him tbh

I agree... but... all it would take is one angry right wing nutcase being close to him and that’s becoming increasingly likely.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Withano

I agree... but... all it would take is one angry right wing nutcase being close to him and that’s becoming increasingly likely.

See what we're up against? Fantasies.

Although I did hear that the protesters were planning to protest outside Jacob Rees Mogg's House, prepared to frighten his children because they can't get their own way. It probably won't happen, not now the police are aware of their plans.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Alf

Although I did hear that the protesters were planning to protest outside Jacob Rees Mogg's House, prepared to frighten his children because they can't get their own way. It probably won't happen, not now the police are aware of their plans.

Originally Posted by Alf

See what we're up against? Fantasies.
.

.

[parmnion]

Shutting down the government to prevent democracy from happening isn't fair though


Stamp your feet in an up.and down rythm then like these idiots out parading thier feathers instead of duscussing it on here..once you've done that...people may listen.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Withano

Am I the only one concerned for this mans life?... Like there’s standing up for what you believe in and there’s making yourself an actual target.

He is an attention seeker and would sell his granny for a spot on BBC News at 3am in the morning

[Twosugars]

The Guardian did a good piece comparing what the current tory ministers said about proroguing a couple of months ago
For example

The chancellor, Sajid Javid, was also staunchly opposed to shutting down parliament during the Tory leadership campaign. “You don’t deliver on democracy by trashing democracy ... we are not selecting a dictator of our country,” he said. As the Guardian surveilled the Treasury, Javid was nowhere to be seen to explain his position. Nor did his spokeswoman answer its questions. he also seemed to be absent from the airwaves.

Others who did a dramatic u turn are gove, morgan, Hancock and Rudd
Lying bastards in the service of the lying blond clown

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Cause you said what if the tables were the other way around or something like that.

That's not really comparable to whataboutism/'whatifery' though. Those rely on trying to divert attention away from something by basically pointing at something else and saying 'what about that?' As though focusing on something else makes the other issue less problematic.

I basically tried to make you and others understand why this miscarriage of democracy is bad by presenting a hypothetical that reversed the situation, not distracted from it. My view is that everyone on both sides should be angry about what has happened, especially considering that leavers have basically called any attempts to oppose Brexit democratically undemocratic so after all that, they can't pretend that the undemocratic seizing of power away from parliament so that they can't reach a solution on time an act of democracy just because it suits the no-deal people.

Proroguing parliament is the most undemocratic abuse of power to happen in years.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Withano

Am I the only one concerned for this mans life?... Like there’s standing up for what you believe in and there’s making yourself an actual target.

Sure Owen did get attacked.
He appears with mates near him
more now

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

The Guardian did a good piece comparing what the current tory ministers said about proroguing a couple of months ago
For example


Others who did a dramatic u turn are gove, morgan, Hancock and Rudd
Lying bastards in the service of the lying blond clown

That's what I can't get over, the lies. I don't have any kind if respect for politicians who will quite literally say anything to make a case for what govt intentions are, regardless of whether there is one grain of truth in any of the claims they make.
Not only that but as you say the contradictions they make on what they've already said are astounding. Theres an ad campaign by a group called 'led by donkeys', they post billboards highlighting the odd, contradictory or false claims stated by politicians in recent times, specifically related to brexit.
I know some will say all politicians lie, but this is a deception on a massive scale, there's no hiding from these and there's no Shame, from pork pie exports to suspending parliament the pm has lied to avoid any accountability for what is happening.
I just hope they don't get away with it for much longer.

[arista]

[Proroguing parliament is the most undemocratic abuse of power to happen in years. ]

Nice to have you back Dezzy.

To be Fair all the Party Political Conferences
are booked so 4 weeks is taken away, anyway
So infact, it is only a Extra 5 days taken away

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

[Proroguing parliament is the most undemocratic abuse of power to happen in years. ]



To be Fair all the Party Political Conferences
are booked so 4 weeks is taken away, anyway
So infact, it is only a Extra 5 days taken away

This is true,he's not broken any laws, the queen has accepted it, it seems to be just another excuse ,to stop us leaving with or without a deal, besides the people wanting to remain are to blame for no deal as they rejected a deal 3 times,they have had 3 years to sort it out,its gone on long enough,what will be will be,no good getting wound up over it.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Withano

Am I the only one concerned for this mans life?... Like there’s standing up for what you believe in and there’s making yourself an actual target.

We need more like him, can you imagine in Britain in 2019 being scared for your life for holding a certain opinion?
It's outright fascism, pure and simple to want to harm people for wanting a fairer more equal and just society.
And its been happening for 100s of years, every time there's any kind sociopolitical discord and someone puts themselves forward as spokesperson, they're targetted.
Nothing ever changes, have you read 'The ragged trousered philanthropist'? Same shiz different millennium. :/

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

[Proroguing parliament is the most undemocratic abuse of power to happen in years. ]

Nice to have you back Dezzy.

To be Fair all the Party Political Conferences
are booked so 4 weeks is taken away, anyway
So infact, it is only a Extra 5 days taken away

Yes however in the conference season Parliament goes into recess..
Some business and other parliamentary things can still be carried out.

To prorogue is to close ALL down.
Therein lies the difference.
It shuts all MPs out.

That is wrong for this length of time.
It should be unacceptable.

I try to avoid this but, had Labour ended up governing after 2017.
Then Corbyn had prorogued Parliament.
The media and near all else would in my view rightly be crucifying him for it.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

[/B]

This is true,he's not broken any laws, the queen has accepted it, it seems to be just another excuse ,to stop us leaving with or without a deal, besides the people wanting to remain are to blame for no deal as they rejected a deal 3 times,they have had 3 years to sort it out,its gone on long enough,what will be will be,no good getting wound up over it.

Hi Kazanne.
With respect the Queen has to accept her Prime Minister's requests and advice.

She can't do anything else.
No matter what her own views may be.

Every PM knows that.
To have then put her in this position unnecessarily is what's wrong.

Sadly it's put the Queen at odds with not only people but Nations too like Scotland and N Ireland.
The poor woman has only done what she had to do.
With a modern PM unbelievably choosing to put her in that position when he never needed to.
Knowing she really couldn't refuse.

That's really worrying or should be.

[Twosugars]

John Major joins legal attempt to block suspension of parliament