[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Kobe Bryant was a rapist?

I've not heard or seen one person mention that fact until this thread.

How many years ago was it supposed to have happened?

google it, its not supposed!

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I've seen AJ in a couple of interviews and I think being honest... a not-small part of it is that he just seems to be a bit brighter than a lot of professional fighters, especially for a heavyweight . That's not really intended as an insult to other fighters, nor is it an excuse for anyone to hold ... distastreful ... opinions, just an observation really.

Maybe it is an element though. It's hard to change someone's opinions if they've been ingrained and they don't really have the ability to properly understand what's wrong with it.

Yes, I agree... Boxers aren't usually gifted in the brains department, but like you say, Joshua seems to be very switched on. And he's got good morals and comes across like a gentleman. I wouldn't mind him winning Sports Personality.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Many people are raised in environments tainted by hatred and yet they are not always hateful. That excuse only goes so far, really. Everyone who isn't hateful comes to a realisation that what they were taught were wrong.

This is what I'm talking about, I guess. Someone who has been indoctrinated to a certain mindset (either at home, or socially... it doesn't always come from family) will only ever change that mindset through self-reflection and (frankly) not everyone has, or is capable of, the level of abstract thinking needed for true self-reflection.

I think Fury is "sorry" for his comments... but only in the sense that he knows it's gotten him into hot water. He's vocally sorry because he's been told to "say sorry!", like a toddler for snatching a toy. He doesn't, to me, come across as having any real new understanding of why his comments were wrong. "I know I shouldn't have said that" and "I'm not racist, anyone who knows me will tell ya" are not really good enough to demonstrate that. He hasn't made any real attempt to talk about why he said the things he said, or explain how his thinking is now different. Because it probably isn't.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Apples and oranges, you had a formal education, I doubt Furey had

There's plenty of people who are educated and bigotted, Cherie. A school education doesn't cure people of their bigotry otherwise it would be non-existent at this point.

Everyone with a troubled upbringing must come to their own realisations in time, they can't blame their environment and parents forever, at some point it's down to them to change and for excuses to stop.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Even on this thread it is being ignored, quelle surprise

very odd

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Cherie

google it, its not supposed!

I just checked on Wikipedia, ****ting hell he really didn't deny it.

[Alf]

He may not win Sports personality anyway. Unless he fights and beats AJ during the year.

It's an olympic year, so there's bound to be some strong contenders there. And if England win the football European Championships, then a football player is likely to win

The BBC has lost all credibility anyway, so this award isn't as prestigious as it used to be.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's plenty of people who are educated and bigotted, Cherie. A school education doesn't cure people of their bigotry otherwise it would be non-existent at this point.

Everyone with a troubled upbringing must come to their own realisations in time, they can't blame their environment and parents forever, at some point it's down to them to change and for excuses to stop.

I disagree to an extent - some people escape their upbringing but IMO it's not actually all that common and parents (and their parents... etc. etc.) can definitely be "to blame" in a lot of cases. Like I said I don't think everyone IS capable of self-reflection and change... so if they were broken early, they're staying broken.

The caveat is that it's not an "excuse" in the sense that it doesn't somehow nullify that person's words or actions, or entitle them to special consideration... a person is what they are, for a multitude of reasons, and should be considered accordingly. Someone with racist, sexist and bigotted views... someone with a tendency to violence... isn't made any nicer just because there are identifiable reasons they became that way.

Like a less extreme version of the study of serial killers I guess. There are often really obvious, fascinating reasons that they became cold-blooded killers... but that doesn't mean you should forget that they are extremely dangerous.

[arista]

Yes The Church he follows
changed him.

But back then he was Unwell in his mind
So LT is picking on a Sick fella?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Alf

He may not win Sports personality anyway. Unless he fights and beats AJ during the year.

It's an olympic year, so there's bound to be some strong contenders there. And if England win the football European Championships, then a football player is likely to win

The BBC has lost all credibility anyway, so this award isn't as prestigious as it used to be.

No he AJ has gone Greedy 70/40 deal?

It should be a 50/50 deal.

So back to Terminate Wilder for ever.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes The Church he follows
changed him.

But back then he was Unwell in his mind
So LT is picking on a Sick fella?

It's not an excuse. I can accept that he let these views slip in public because he was struggling with his mental health, but not that they magically appeared in his head because of his mental health. He already thought those things, the reasons they slipped out aren't all that important.

There ARE cases where people in mental turmoil will say "the worst things they can think of" purely for effect, self-destructive tendencies, to "watch the world burn" but this doesn't come across as that at all. Not spontaneous or agitated.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I just checked on Wikipedia, ****ting hell he really didn't deny it.

At least you acknowledge it Mock, thank you!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

There's plenty of people who are educated and bigotted, Cherie. A school education doesn't cure people of their bigotry otherwise it would be non-existent at this point.

Everyone with a troubled upbringing must come to their own realisations in time, they can't blame their environment and parents forever, at some point it's down to them to change and for excuses to stop.

Oh right lets not bother with education then seeing as it doesn't matter Formal education along with how you are brought up will have a huge bearing on how you turn out, of course there are people who will not be taught, and who are influenced by what happens at home and in their community, and then there are people who cant be helped at all, but we cant deny education doesn't play a part, otherwise why would we bother introducing reading material with same sex parents etc or with diversity and inclusion in education

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes The Church he follows
changed him.

But back then he was Unwell in his mind
So LT is picking on a Sick fella?

And Jesus's message was Love Each Other. Even I know that. I'm not sure how they could have got that message so skewed.

[bitontheslide]

Patiently waiting for the ... it's not his fault, he was a member of the boy scouts

[Cherie]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

Shall I say it?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

Hey I vilify them both

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why Tyson is vilified while Kobe is glorified....

Because he's dead? I'm not saying that's "right" but it's the main reason. I'm not sure that needed explaining.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Because he's dead? I'm not saying that's "right" but it's the main reason. I'm not sure that needed explaining.

Hmm Jimmy Saville?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Hmm Jimmy Saville?

Not a fair comparison, Saville was weird looking .

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Hmm Jimmy Saville?

[parmnion]

I'm sure it's easy enough to forgive a man who is sorry for his past, and he is sorry. So let's forgive him.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not a fair comparison, Saville was weird looking .

It's because Jimmy Saville was a paedo while Kobe was a good looking sports hero and it was only a woman anyway, she's probably a lying slut lbr.............and also because Jimmy Saville is weird looking

[Livia]

I'm not saying anything about Kobe. And the reason for that is, I have no idea who he is......