[Nicky91]

i cannot comment myself on british government of course

but i am pleased on our dutch government yes, we are easing down measures now at a perfect time, when you low numbers now, but more still being very careful doing so

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In all honesty I think they're panicking but I don't think this is just a UK issue right now; most of Europe is going back to work and, in terms of the spread, far too early. It's not just too early for the UK, it's too early for every country that's aiming to get back to work.

The problem of course is... markets. Markets are spooked by lack of confidence, and thus, telling the truth can make matters worse. What is happening right now is that world leaders know we are on the verge of a catastrophic economic crash. This isn't about prioritising the rich over the workers... ... this is about the entire system coming down in a way that is completely unprecedented. I think we are in serious, serious trouble.

But the government can't come out and say "Look guys it's not ideal but if we don't go back to work now, we're not going back to work at all, and millions of people are going to die, not of Covid-19, but because everything will start to break down".

They can't say that because it will panic the public. They can't say that because it will spook the markets and make it even worse. So what you get is "half a message" that doesn't make any sense unless you look hard between the lines.

Especially as most people simply do not and can not understand that a financial crash is just as dangerous as Covid. More dangerous by an order of magnitude if it gets bad enough. I hope we don't find out.

Essentially it's this:

Govts.: "We have to all get back to work now"
Public/Media: "Isn't it too early, isn't that dangerous?"
Govts: "Well... yes s be really careful, it absolutely is dangerous."
Public/Media: "But we still should?"
Govts: "Yes."
Public/Media: "WTF why???"
Govts: "...lol "
Public/Media: "WHY???"
Govts: "Cant tell u lol!"

We shouldn't be expected to best guess, we deserve the truth. We can handle the truth as shown with the response to the truth bomb delivered prior to lockdown. What's the point in keeping things from us now?

Explain why certain sectors need to return and assure govt will put pressure on employers to ensure their workers are given adequate protection or protective measures.
It is here the fines need to be issued, if employers are found not to be complying with social distancing or protecting their workers fine them!

From personal experience my company who operate for a major supermarket distribution centre have given us over the period covid has been a threat precisely nothing, no ppe, no gels, no soap nothing. The supermarket over the last month have supplied us with wipes and the company who oversee the operation of the warehouse put in gel dispensers and flexible plastic screens 3 weeks ago.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It is scary, and I think even people who do understand why it's scary sort of want to ignore it for the time being - an attitude of "well OK but let's get Covid out of the way and THEN we'll worry about the aftermath". I'm worried that it's going to be far, far too late. People in the western world have been living in a relatively pretty bubble for 70+ years and think that our standard of living can't really, dramatically change. People are perhaps imagining a bit of a recession like 2008. Some service cuts that are frustrating, some wage freezing, etc.

That is not what we're looking at right now. If 2008's global recession was a roll down a bumpy hill, this is going to be a cliff-dive with no parachute. It's the ugly elephant in the room that no one wants to look at because of the Covid gremlin in the other corner.

it is the simple realities of life i'm sorry to say, we need to get back to work (i've never stopped although i work from home)

The worlds economies are ****ed, we all need to generate income or we cannot pay for the NHS or any other public services at all.

A grim reality will also become apparent as people return to work, and that is that jobs won't be there. We are in the first 2 months of an "incident" that has the potential to affect us all for 20 years. While in lockdown, it's been like a suspended animation, it will all now spring back to reality.

I really do hope that I am being overly pessimistic and that by having a relatively short timeout, the economy can bounce back quickly ... we will see, but I do know one thing that is certain, we need to get back to living and working as normally as we can as quickly as we can, otherwise when the next wave hits, there won't be any NHS to protect and there won't be a lockdown, because people will need to work to survive.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it is the simple realities of life i'm sorry to say, we need to get back to work (i've never stopped although i work from home)

The worlds economies are ****ed, we all need to generate income or we cannot pay for the NHS or any other public services at all.

A grim reality will also become apparent as people return to work, and that is that jobs won't be there. We are in the first 2 months of an "incident" that has the potential to affect us all for 20 years. While in lockdown, it's been like a suspended animation, it will all now spring back to reality.

I really do hope that I am being overly pessimistic and that by having a relatively short timeout, the economy can bounce back quickly ... we will see, but I do know one thing that is certain, we need to get back to living and working as normally as we can as quickly as we can, otherwise when the next wave hits, there won't be any NHS to protect and there won't be a lockdown, because people will need to work to survive.

yes of course, i guess the government's job there for workers is provide face masks, make sure you can work whilst still holding yourself to the 2 metres social distancing rule (for construction workers mostly there seems to be this problem)

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

For Kaz

Opinions are like assholes we all have one some agree some don't and never the twain will meet I watched Boris and the message was clear. Go back to work if it is safe to do so otherwise, stay home. Continue to observe social distancing but the limitation on leaving the house just to exercise has been lifted.

I can't understand why people are complaining - it is not as if a large number of them were observing the original restrictions anyway.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it is the simple realities of life i'm sorry to say, we need to get back to work (i've never stopped although i work from home)

The worlds economies are ****ed, we all need to generate income or we cannot pay for the NHS or any other public services at all.

A grim reality will also become apparent as people return to work, and that is that jobs won't be there. We are in the first 2 months of an "incident" that has the potential to affect us all for 20 years. While in lockdown, it's been like a suspended animation, it will all now spring back to reality.

I really do hope that I am being overly pessimistic and that by having a relatively short timeout, the economy can bounce back quickly ... we will see, but I do know one thing that is certain, we need to get back to living and working as normally as we can as quickly as we can, otherwise when the next wave hits, there won't be any NHS to protect and there won't be a lockdown, because people will need to work to survive.

I think at the very least we're going to see a seismic shift; service industries, physical retain and leisure are absolutely ****ed. Online retail and certain other industries have a chance to thrive. But of course, the problem is that these behemoth companies employ relatively few people and pay next to no tax.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think at the very least we're going to see a seismic shift; service industries, physical retain and leisure are absolutely ****ed. Online retail and certain other industries have a chance to thrive. But of course, the problem is that these behemoth companies employ relatively few people and pay next to no tax.

So we can safely assume the conservatives love of free market venture capitalism has come back to bite them on the nads?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We shouldn't be expected to best guess, we deserve the truth. We can handle the truth as shown with the response to the truth bomb delivered prior to lockdown. What's the point in keeping things from us now?

Explain why certain sectors need to return and assure govt will put pressure on employers to ensure their workers are given adequate protection or protective measures.
It is here the fines need to be issued, if employers are found not to be complying with social distancing or protecting their workers fine them!

From personal experience my company who operate for a major supermarket distribution centre have given us over the period covid has been a threat precisely nothing, no ppe, no gels, no soap nothing. The supermarket over the last month have supplied us with wipes and the company who oversee the operation of the warehouse put in gel dispensers and flexible plastic screens 3 weeks ago.

I agree in principle about the honesty, but the government admitting that the economy is in big trouble would cause stocks to crash. The entire financial system set up as the UK standard by good ol' Ms Thatcher relies entirely on trader confidence, and the sad reality is, we sold everything off so the UK economy now relies heavily on London trading.

What really needs to happen though is at least being more open about it, but hand in hand with confident statements about how we're going to make it work and keep business going, which would hopefully remedy some of the market fears. As always strong, confident leadership is absolutely key and that's why Boris' Sunday video was an absolute disaster. Like basically the worst of both worlds! Confusing for the public AND alarming for the markets, because it was all over the place. Full of ifs, buts and maybes. A great big "shrug" of a statement.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Opinions are like assholes we all have one some agree some don't and never the twain will meet I watched Boris and the message was clear. Go back to work if it is safe to do so otherwise, stay home. Continue to observe social distancing but the limitation on leaving the house just to exercise has been lifted.

I can't understand why people are complaining - it is not as if a large number of them were observing the original restrictions anyway.

That does not address the issue raised in the vid, that conservative MPS don't know what the advice is following the speech either.

Attacking morgan for his comments was a smokescreen to cover the fact he had no clue what the advice was either.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree in principle about the honesty, but the government admitting that the economy is in big trouble would cause stocks to crash. The entire financial system set up as the UK standard by good ol' Ms Thatcher relies entirely on trader confidence, and the sad reality is, we sold everything off so the UK economy now relies heavily on London trading.

What really needs to happen though is at least being more open about it, but hand in hand with confident statements about how we're going to make it work and keep business going, which would hopefully remedy some of the market fears. As always strong, confident leadership is absolutely key and that's why Boris' Sunday video was an absolute disaster. Like basically the worst of both worlds! Confusing for the public AND alarming for the markets, because it was all over the place. Full of ifs, buts and maybes. A great big "shrug" of a statement.

Yep, they have crashed and are crashing, some industry specific advice and guidelines would help everyone; employers, employees and investors know the state of play moving forward.
Announcing on Sunday that sectors return to work on Monday with no guidelines is ridiculous and will in no way instill confidence in any market as it will lead to a prediction of a second wave of infection.

He's now suggesting last night's announcement was a 'rough sketch of a road map' ... Who the feck wants that?! The guy is a joke.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That does not address the issue raised in the vid, that conservative MPS don't know what the advice is following the speech either.

Attacking morgan for his comments was a smokescreen to cover the fact he had no clue what the advice was either.

Yes thats why Owen Jones
posted it.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

I can't understand why people are complaining.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I hate needless premature deaths. Wbu?

[The Slim Reaper]

Holy ****, arista posted about Owen Jones without using a pejorative. He'll be wearing a che guevara t-shirt, and a beret with a hammer and sickle badge on it next.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

So we can safely assume the conservatives love of free market venture capitalism has come back to bite them on the nads?

YES YOU CAN....covid 19, kizzy salutes you x

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i cannot comment myself on british government of course

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

Oh c'mon Slim this would have happened anyway ,people were already flouting the rules.maybe he should stop treating us like adults and order us to stay put like little kids, ,would that satisfy everyone ? I doubt it,hes in a difficult position here,I don't get why people can't understand what he said, use common sense IF you think something is risky,dont do it

Kaz it's alright using the argument of "rule breakers already doing what they want" , but at the end of the day Boris has given contradictory and mixed messages .

The buses and roads are now busy as hell and it's thanks to him, people who were self isolating now think they can get back to normal.

[Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Piers’ interview technique is very boisterous and over the top and he can be very obnoxious and preachy, however, the majority of people who are now against him because he’s challenging the government, didn’t mind his technique so much when he was doing it to vegans or trans people, or feminists, funny that really isn’t it, almost like something has changed..

Funny that isn’t it?

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Mitchell

Funny that isn’t it?

thats why the left lost the last election....only the idiots were left bravely supporting someones opinions they felt they had to agree with because they had in the past.

[Kizzy]

yeah the guy has gone from hero to zero with the gammonati

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

thats why the left lost the last election....only the idiots were left bravely supporting someones opinions they felt they had to agree with because they had in the past.

Deflection.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Kaz it's alright using the argument of "rule breakers already doing what they want" , but at the end of the day Boris has given contradictory and mixed messages .

The buses and roads are now busy as hell and it's thanks to him, people who were self isolating now think they can get back to normal.

fake news

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

thats why the left lost the last election....only the idiots were left bravely supporting someones opinions they felt they had to agree with because they had in the past.

Not even nearly true.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Deflection.

why is that?


its a true fact, the left lost the election cause sane people realised corbyn was a fool...


kaz probably already knows piers is a fool, but she can still agree with his opinions on things and also disagree like a sane person would.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by parmnion

why is that?


its a true fact, the left lost the election cause sane people realised corbyn was a fool...


kaz probably already knows piers is a fool, but she can still agree with his opinions on things and also disagree like a sane person would.

It's deflection because it's deflecting from the discussion.
Corbyn is the new Godwin's law around here.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Not even nearly true.

why else would the north desert labour then?