[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

This is nonsense tbf...it’s only confusing because people want to do their own thing...and it’s only a few days ago St Nicky had to explain why only a third of care homes had been tested, you have a far smaller nation, same size as NZ and no major transatlantic hubs ...Scotland really haven’t done that well at all in terms of fatalities imo

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...stcode-lottery

I'm not talking about overall, we had the exact same shaky start as the rest of the UK but that's sort of the point; the policies were roughly the same and figures roughly correlated with population size for several months, and started to diverge when the advice in England started spiraling off on a tangent while Scotland said "We're keeping things as they are for now".

The population of England is 10x the population of Scotland so to be the same rates, England would have to be at

20 deaths
140 in ICU
260 new cases

I can appreciate what you're saying about other factors like "the London effect" but the figures are not just reflecting a small percentage increase based on that now, like they were even a month ago.

IF as much repression of the virus as possible was the goal, England pulled back on the stick 2 - 3 weeks too early. It's pretty much that simple.

[arista]

Deaths Today : 128

Total Deaths of the UK Covid-19 :42,589

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm not talking about overall, we had the exact same shaky start as the rest of the UK but that's sort of the point; the policies were roughly the same and figures roughly correlated with population size for several months, and started to diverge when the advice in England started spiraling off on a tangent while Scotland said "We're keeping things as they are for now".

The population of England is 10x the population of Scotland so to be the same rates, England would have to be at

20 deaths
140 in ICU
260 new cases

I can appreciate what you're saying about other factors like "the London effect" but the figures are not just reflecting a small percentage increase based on that now, like they were even a month ago.

IF as much repression of the virus as possible was the goal, England pulled back on the stick 2 - 3 weeks too early. It's pretty much that simple.

The difference between Scotland and England at base level is that

1) Scotland doesn't have the variations in population densiy that England
and has, therefore it can set simpler goals

2) Scotland doesn't have a financial centre

3) Most importantly. Scotland can set their own goals because they can put the fiscal responsibility for it on to England. Nicky can't lose in that respect

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Deaths Today : 128

Total Deaths of the UK Covid-19 :42,589

Quite high for a Saturday

[Nicky91]

here today numbers

8 new deaths

2 new hospitalisations

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Today Scotland has 2 deaths, 14 currently in ICU, 26 total new cases. Death figure has been 0 several times in the last 10 days.

The differences in policy between Scotland and England haven't even been huge, but they are there, and clearly something is resulting in a noticeable difference. Honestly I think one of the main differences is simply that the advice has been clearly stated and consistent, whereas the advice in England has simple been so confusing that I feel many people have just given up on trying to keep up with it.

Definitely.

In fact of all the leading Ministers of the currently 4 UK Nations.
I've admired the consistency of her message and also her genuine compassion towards those who lost their lives and those left behind.
Also her caution too.


We had creepy Gavin Williamson on the other day, announcing another 173 deaths.
Yet never even said either he was sad to report that, or offer any condolences to the bereaved.

Deaths now don't seem to matter to the government now.
It's all on changing the agenda despite the risks.

I've learned far more in the Scottish press conferences, from Nicola Sturgeon and her clearer message than has been made clear from our government, whether that's the PM or other Minister taking them.

[Nicky91]

Belgium

only 2 new deaths today

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by arista

It's outside of the Pub.

They are Happy to sell Plastic Glasses of Beer

and Wine for folks to drink outside on the street.



The Pub is not responsible for any that choose

to stand close together





Soon another BLM rally

in Hyde Park is going down to Parliament

Many of them will have a Mask on

but are to close together

Surely they are the pub’s customers and it’s up to the pub to ensure their clientele can social distance ..

Pubs / clubs all have to have Public Liability insurance in case one of their customers claims against them - so in a normal situation you can’t say a pub is only responsible for the customers INSIDE the pub ...


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[smudgie]

No surprise at the numbers this week.
What with all the public mingling since the weather changed, plus the protests and raves.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Quite high for a Saturday

Lower than last Sat, these are Fridays figures so not affected by any data lag like Sunday and Monday are

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

The difference between Scotland and England at base level is that



1) Scotland doesn't have the variations in population densiy that England

and has, therefore it can set simpler goals



2) Scotland doesn't have a financial centre



3) Most importantly. Scotland can set their own goals because they can put the fiscal responsibility for it on to England. Nicky can't lose in that respect

1) Whilst again I know the London effect is a thing, this statement is utter nonsense - nearly 3/4 of Scotland's population lives in the central belt region (West to East, Ayrshire-Glasgow-Edinburgh). There are quite obviously vast differences in population density across the country.

2) It doesn't and this does make a difference, there were always differences throughout, England being hit approx 2x worse, but at this point in it 8x to 10x worse, specifically since England started exiting lockdown and Scotland did not.

3) Now on this one, you certainly know that in general I agree with you about the potential economic damage, HOWEVER it really doesn't apply here. That choice was made and that damage has been done, and pulling out of lockdown 3 weeks prematurely will make negligible difference on that front. They needed to reverse course EVEN EARLIER, or hold out a little longer. They started hitting the brakes at a point where it will make have no positive economic impact above waiting a few more weeks, but also has (clearly) stunted the rate at which infection levels are decreasing, dramatically increasing the risk of a second spike.

The timing of their execution was piss poor. There's just no avoiding that. They should have waited a few more weeks and the difference in drop off rate reflects that.

[MTVN]

Eh I think Scotland has just dropped off quicker because they didn't experience the outbreak on the same scale in the first place, same reason here in the South West we've got about the same population as Scotland but only had 11 deaths across the whole week last week

[bitontheslide]

Travellers from the UK will not have to quarantine on arrival in Spain from Sunday, Spanish officials have said.

Spain's foreign affairs minister has told the BBC that British citizens will be allowed to enter the country freely, without the need to self-isolate.

She said the decision had been made "out of respect" for the 400,000 Britons who have second homes in Spain.

[MTVN]

Benidorm here I come

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

1) Whilst again I know the London effect is a thing, this statement is utter nonsense - nearly 3/4 of Scotland's population lives in the central belt region (West to East, Ayrshire-Glasgow-Edinburgh). There are quite obviously vast differences in population density across the country.

2) It doesn't and this does make a difference, there were always differences throughout, England being hit approx 2x worse, but at this point in it 8x to 10x worse, specifically since England started exiting lockdown and Scotland did not.

3) Now on this one, you certainly know that in general I agree with you about the potential economic damage, HOWEVER it really doesn't apply here. That choice was made and that damage has been done, and pulling out of lockdown 3 weeks prematurely will make negligible difference on that front. They needed to reverse course EVEN EARLIER, or hold out a little longer. They started hitting the brakes at a point where it will make have no positive economic impact above waiting a few more weeks, but also has (clearly) stunted the rate at which infection levels are decreasing, dramatically increasing the risk of a second spike.

The timing of their execution was piss poor. There's just no avoiding that. They should have waited a few more weeks and the difference in drop off rate reflects that.

People were already breaking the lockdown in england, you can't force people to be locked down against their will, they need to want to do it, and for many reasons, people just decided enough was enough. The lifting of restrictions followed the people, not really the other way round. The same applied to the start of the lockdown, people had already decided that was the right thing to do

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Travellers from the UK will not have to quarantine on arrival in Spain from Sunday, Spanish officials have said.

Spain's foreign affairs minister has told the BBC that British citizens will be allowed to enter the country freely, without the need to self-isolate.

She said the decision had been made "out of respect" for the 400,000 Britons who have second homes in Spain.

Whoop whoop didn’t think we would get back until at least Oct, not that we will be going for now anyway

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Lower than last Sat, these are Fridays figures so not affected by any data lag like Sunday and Monday are

Oh I thought it was higher thanks

[joeysteele]

Whether the rising deaths figure can be given as more or less than last week, or any other time. ( It's probably not a true figure anyway).

All I see is, with not a scrap of concern or compassion.
Is again here over 100 deaths.
That's Parents, Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts, Brothers, Sisters, friends and neighbours.

Leaving hundreds, likely thousands more grieving for those lost loved ones.

Talking of deaths still happening in their hundreds, as if it's worth concentrating on the level of them in comparison to other days, I find sickening.

My thoughts totally go out to all of those who now for a long time are still seeing hundreds of their loved ones dying before their time.
Not likely being able to even attend their funerals and give their last respects.

However people soon, in the interests of making money, likely be able to, despite the risks it will bring, go to a pub.

Awful.
Rising deaths, lower or higher are STILL rising deaths of loved ones.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Whether the rising deaths figure can be given as more or less than last week, or any other time. ( It's probably not a true figure anyway).

All I see is, with not a scrap of concern or compassion.
Is again here over 100 deaths.
That's people's Parents, Grandparents, Uncles, Aunts, Brothers, Sisters, friends and neighbours.

Leaving hundreds, likely thousands more grieving for those lost loved ones.

Talking of deaths still happening in their hundreds, as if it's worth concentrating on the level of them in comparison to other days, I find sickening.

My thoughts totally go out to all of those who now for a long time are still seeing hundreds of their loved ones dying before their time.
Not likely being able to even attend their funerals and give their last respects.

However people soon, in the interests of making money, likely be able to, despite the risks it will bring, go to a pub.

Awful.
Rising deaths, lower or higher are STILL rising deaths of loved ones.

Oh sorry Joey it did come across like that, of course any death from anything is tragic

[arista]

Germany's R rate has Gone up to 1.79
Live Ch4HD news


There are now fears Germany has a 2nd Peak of infections.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Germany's R rate has Gone up to 1.79
Live Ch4HD news


There are now fears Germany has a 2nd Peak of infections.

Oh shoot

[MTVN]

Yesterday they said it was 1.06 so these estimates are fluctuating wildly, I wouldn't be too concerned about it yet

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Oh sorry Joey it did come across like that, of course any death from anything is tragic

Aw no no Cherie, you don't need to say sorry.
Thank you for thinking on something I said however I ought to have made it more clear.
No way was I directing my comment to you.
Thank you sincerely for your response though.
It was really thoughtful of you.

My groans are with the officials, the government and their attitude to the rising deaths.
By calling it 'deaths are falling''
As I said the last Minister, Williamson in the press conference didn't even offer sympathies to the bereaved loved ones.

I can only say what I personally think and feel on here, I can't tell others on here what to say or think.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by arista

Germany's R rate has Gone up to 1.79
Live Ch4HD news


There are now fears Germany has a 2nd Peak of infections.

I keep repeating it, but the R rate just doesn't mean anything without context.

The number of infected in Germany is very low so it's unlikely that its a problem. It could mean 2 people have to self isolate

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by smudgie

No surprise at the numbers this week.

What with all the public mingling since the weather changed, plus the protests and raves.

We live in a nice area but a few houses down and across from our garden I can hear a massive outdoor party going on for the last two hours .. judging by all the different blokes shouting plus wives and children I’d guess there must be about 20 having a wild time . We’ve had to close the windows and door to keep the noise out


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