[Oliver_W]

When it comes to comic book movies, I prefer Marvel as I don't really like their comics. I really do like DC comics though, so I'm hard to please when it comes to the movies.

I still can't stand Man of Steel, but BvS and JL have settled down to being stupid fun/guilty pleasures.

That said, I do think Snyder Cut will be better than what was released. Especially if new footage is made!

"It Will Be an Entirely New Thing": Zack Snyder's $20M-Plus 'Justice League' Cut Plans Revealed

HBO Max will debut the project in 2021 — possibly in a four-hour director's cut or in six TV-style "chapters" — as the helmer gets the gang back together with the original postproduction crew to score, cut and finish visual effects.
It was very early on a Monday morning in November when director Zack Snyder and his wife and producing partner, Deborah Snyder, received a call from their agent. Let’s be a bit more precise: It was 7 a.m. But more importantly, it was the day after the second anniversary of the release of Justice League, the DC superhero movie that Snyder was forced to exit due to a family emergency, which was then substantially reshot and retooled by replacement director Joss Whedon.

In the time since its release, something unusual happened: A growing movement of fans, rallied by the hashtag #ReleasetheSnyderCut, had called, agitated, petitioned — even bought a Times Square billboard and chartered a plane to fly a banner over Comic-Con — for Snyder’s version to be released. And on the film's second anniversary, the hashtag had its biggest day ever — with even the movie's stars Gal Gadot and Ben Affleck adding their voices on Twitter.

So here, the morning after, was their agent saying that Toby Emmerich, chairman of Warner Bros. Pictures, was acknowledging the movement, and more importantly, was willing to accede. "This is real. People out there want it. Would you guys ever consider doing something?" was what Emmerich was asking, Zack Snyder recalls.

The answer to Emmerich's question, a whispered-about secret for months, was revealed Wednesday when Snyder confirmed, at the end of an online screening of his 2013 movie, Man of Steel, that his version of Justice League was indeed real. And that it will be coming to HBO Max, the WarnerMedia digital streaming service launching May 27, and is expected to debut in 2021.

It is currently unclear what form Snyder’s Justice League will take. Whether it will be released as an almost four-hour director’s cut or split into six "chapters" has yet to be decided, but the Snyders are now in the midst of reassembling much of their original postproduction crew to score, cut, add new and finish old visual effects, and, yes, maybe bring back many of the actors to record additional dialogue.

Also unclear is the cost of the endeavor. One source has pegged the effort in the $20 million range, although another source says that figure could be closer to $30 million. The parties involved had no comment.

"It will be an entirely new thing, and, especially talking to those who have seen the released movie, a new experience apart from that movie," Snyder tells The Hollywood Reporter, noting that, to this day, he has not watched the version released in theaters.

"You probably saw one-fourth of what I did," the director notes, basing his judgment on what has been shared with him of Whedon's version.

Before Emmerich came calling, says Snyder, "I always thought it was a thing that in 20 years, maybe somebody would do a documentary and I could lend them the footage, little snippets of a cut no one has ever seen."

But, adds Deborah, "With the new platform and streaming services, you can have something like this. You can’t release something like this theatrically, but you could with a streaming service. It’s an opportunity that wasn’t there two years ago, to be honest."

It is a very unlikely development, and the latest twist for a movie that has, like the Man of Steel himself, seen death and rebirth.

Snyder was in a unique position when he shot Justice League in 2016. Warner Bros. had entrusted its universe of DC characters to one filmmaker — him — and he had been building toward a great onscreen team-up, though not without some bumps in the road. He began with Man of Steel, which grossed $668 million worldwide, then followed up with Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, the 2016 blockbuster that polarized fans with its dark take on the iconic titular heroes and took in $873 million globally.

In January 2017, Snyder had what he considered his optimal version of Justice League, almost four hours long, although he knew it was something the studio would not release. Warners wanted a cut in the two-hour range, and he delivered a rough version with an approximate two-hour, 20-minute running time. That was the first cut the studio saw. Both sides agreed that there was much work still to be done before the November release, but tragedy struck the Snyders when their daughter, Autumn, died by suicide. A month and a half later, Snyder officially stepped away and Whedon was brought in.

League opened Nov. 17 to weak reviews and sluggish box office, eventually taking in $658 million worldwide. However, almost immediately a movement was born. Fans unhappy with the film created the now-infamous hashtag. A Change.org petition for Warners to release Snyder’s version had already garnered over 100,000 signatures less than five days after the movie’s release.

Forget that the version that fans wanted technically didn’t exist. What did exist was a semi-unfinished work, with no visual effects, no postproduction. One person who had seen that version described it like a car with no panels, just a drivetrain and some seats. And it sat on a hard drive in the Snyders' house. "When we left the movie, I just took the drive of the cut on it," says Snyder. "I honestly never thought it would be anything."

In the year following their daughter's death, the Snyders closed circles around their family as they tried to heal from the tragedy. "The first year was about the milestones and the holidays," recalls Deborah. "Now, it’s not those but other moments, like songs that trigger memories, that hit me unexpectedly."

Adds the director: "As a family, as a couple, I think we have grown in a way that has made us stronger. We’re doing our best. You really can’t hope for more."

The duo also became involved in suicide-prevention charity work and plotted a return to movies with Army of the Dead. Meanwhile, #ReleasetheSnyderCut became more organized and visible, gaining mainstream media attention. Snyder fed into the movement by occasionally teasing images from his movie or storyboards on social media, in some ways only stoking the hot embers. And he saw some of the seeds he planted in his movies, especially in his castings of Gadot as Wonder Woman and Momoa as Aquaman, grow into gardens as the spinoffs became pop culture phenomenons and billion-dollar hits.

It was on the two-year anniversary, however, that the zenith was reached and the hashtag became a top worldwide trend. "#ReleasetheSnyderCut is the most-tweeted hashtag about a movie that WB has ever made, but it’s a movie they’ve never released," says Snyder. "It’s a weird stat but it’s cool."

After the Saturday morning phone call, the Snyders began to move puzzle pieces into place. "We had to figure out what it meant to finish it, and how do you pull it off?" recalls Deborah.

The couple put together a presentation and, in early February, invited a select group of executives from Warner Bros., HBO Max and DC to their house in Pasadena to screen Snyder's little-seen version that was shown in black and white. The number of execs in the room — there were more than a dozen in attendance, ranging from Warners' Emmerich, Carolyn Blackwood and Walter Hamada to HBO Max's Kevin Reilly, Sarah Aubrey and Sandra Dewey to DC's Jim Lee — showed the importance of the potentially extensive undertaking. Heads of physical production and business affairs were there to assess what needed to be done and how much it would cost. At his presentation after the screening, Snyder outlined ideas for not just releasing the cut but the concept of episodes and cliffhangers.

The executives left the meeting pumped. The Snyder Cut was real. Except then it almost wasn’t.

The novel coronavirus struck, and Hollywood all but shut down in mid-March. Says Deborah, "People thought, 'It won’t be possible to ramp up, and that maybe this should go on the back burner.' But we said, 'No, this is the right time' because our visual effects houses that rely on so much are running out of work, so now is the time to be doing this." It also helped that many of those post facilities had held on to the original assets.

Snyder also spent April and this month reaching out to the sizable cast, giving a heads-up on the new development and letting them know their services may be needed. (The first person called: Ray Fisher, who played Cyborg. "He was like, 'You’re kidding me, right?'" recalls the director.)

There is no schedule going forward at this stage for the project as talks are now beginning with postproduction houses, which also gives HBO Max plenty of time to find the best way to present this version of Justice League. Snyder is at the same time in postproduciton on Army of the Dead, his zombie thriller for Netflix that is also to debut in 2021.

For the Snyders, the chance to revisit the movie also brings the prospect for closure on a project they were forced to let go. "This movie was the culmination of a hero’s journey that all these characters went on," says Deborah. "And the idea was always to build them up to be the heroes people expected them to be."

And while the cut will contain the many elements Snyder has teased over time (yes, expect Darkseid), the duo also relish adding a fair amount of character development: "What’s so lovely about this is that we get to explore these characters in ways that you’re not able to in a shorter theatrical version."

The Snyders know that fan power is what led to the Snyder Cut becoming a reality. "Clearly this wouldn’t be happening without them," says the director. He also credits Warners for living up to its old reputation as the filmmaker’s studio.

Adds Snyder, "This return to that pedigree and to let my singular vision of my movie be realized, in this format, in this length, is unprecedented and a brave move."

[user104658]

I'm hyped for it, I like Snyder's over-long over-stylised stuff . I can't help it. I even like Sucker Punch.

What will happen if it does well though... They had all but given up on the current iteration of the JL - but then Aquaman did very well (largely thanks to Momoa's popularity), but Henry Cavill's popularity and star appeal has been rising steadily as well. They even had Ezra Miller's "Flash" cameo in the Arrowverse Flash (Crisis) which was somehow kept totally under wraps until it aired.

But then you have the sticking point of Batfleck being done and dusted and Pattman taking over, and I highly doubt it'll be to play the same version... I'm imagining Pattinson will be playing an earlier "peak" Batman, not Affleck's "Been there, done that, locked all the villains in Arkham and just about ready to retire" Batman.

I can see them wanting to do more JL stuff but not sure how they'll pull it together.

[The Slim Reaper]

Think it's quite brave. The Snyder cut has been almost mythologised after the disappointing release.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm hyped for it, I like Snyder's over-long over-stylised stuff . I can't help it. I even like Sucker Punch.

Oh same, I like all his other stuff, but like I said I get a bit ... the only word is aspergersish ... about things I like, and when they don't fit into the comics "world" I got annoyed. BvS and JL have grown on me, and it's the stuff which seems to be the reshoots I don't like from JL.

I think I read somewhere Caville is staying on as Supes, so if Snyder wanted to film new parts with him at least it'd be technically possible.

I didn't know how much was filmed before Whatshisface took over, but from the sounds of it Snyder had enough raw footage to whittle something together?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But then you have the sticking point of Batfleck being done and dusted and Pattman taking over, and I highly doubt it'll be to play the same version... I'm imagining Pattinson will be playing an earlier "peak" Batman, not Affleck's "Been there, done that, locked all the villains in Arkham and just about ready to retire" Batman.

I can see them wanting to do more JL stuff but not sure how they'll pull it together.

They could do a "Flashpoint" movie. In the comics they a big crossover thing centered around the Flash to reboot a lot of the storylines, while also keeping them intact. I guess that description doesn't make a ton of sense

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Think it's quite brave. The Snyder cut has been almost mythologised after the disappointing release.

I just hope it lives up to it!!

[Tom4784]

I can't say I'm too excited about it, Man of Steel and BvS are solid 6/10s or 7/10s at a push but he never really understood the source material that well. Justice League was just a bad film and I don't think anything can truly save it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

They could do a "Flashpoint" movie. In the comics they a big crossover thing centered around the Flash to reboot a lot of the storylines, while also keeping them intact. I guess that description doesn't make a ton of sense


I just hope it lives up to it!!

It's rumoured that WW84 might have nicked the flashpoint storyline to an extent, I believe.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's rumoured that WW84 might have nicked the flashpoint storyline to an extent, I believe.

Oh cool, I hadn't heard that!!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I can't say I'm too excited about it, Man of Steel and BvS are solid 6/10s or 7/10s at a push but he never really understood the source material that well. Justice League was just a bad film and I don't think anything can truly save it.

The worst part of JL for me though is that it feels cobbled together... Because it is cobbled together. Other major downfalls are Flash being clumsy and underpowered, and just the general lack of character development. Aquaman, Flash solo, a solo Batman and maybe even the second WW should have come before they even started filming JL. They got impatient wanting to compete with Avengers. Ironically (Covid aside), NOW would be the right time to be geari g up for JL because although it's not exactly what they intended... Marvel feels very much "complete" at the moment after Endgame. They would have a clear field.

[Oliver_W]

(think I'll turn this into a general DC movies thread)

I hope the Batman movie isn't going to be too early in his career, there's no real need for an origin story - I'm pretty sure Batman's origin is in "everyone knows" territory, so they'd be better off just getting on with it.

I'm not a member any comicsy forums or anything - comics online fandom is awful - but a comparison I read somewhere was James Bond. Whenever the lead changes, they don't start his career from the beginning. He just gets on with Bondy things.

The Zero Year comics were good. It was right after Bruce started being Batman, but before he had any Robins or met most of his enemies, etc. Actually, Riddler was one of the main villains in that story, and he's going to be in The Batman, so that could be a good shout!

[Tony Montana]

Excited for this! I loved Snyder's director's cut of Watchmen and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice and I'm certain this will be just as good.

[Tony Montana]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The worst part of JL for me though is that it feels cobbled together... Because it is cobbled together. Other major downfalls are Flash being clumsy and underpowered, and just the general lack of character development. Aquaman, Flash solo, a solo Batman and maybe even the second WW should have come before they even started filming JL. They got impatient wanting to compete with Avengers. Ironically (Covid aside), NOW would be the right time to be geari g up for JL because although it's not exactly what they intended... Marvel feels very much "complete" at the moment after Endgame. They would have a clear field.

Yeah, by the time JL arrived in 2017, Marvel were on phase 3, and it looked like DC were playing catch up. They should've just given them all solo films first and then made a JL film.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Tony Montana

Yeah, by the time JL arrived in 2017, Marvel were on phase 3, and it looked like DC were playing catch up. They should've just given them all solo films first and then made a JL film.

Especially as I'm not sure that Marvel are going to go down the route of "big full team ups" for a while now that we've had endgame. It's going to stay a combined universe but I think it'll mainly be in the vein of crossover characters e.g. Black Widow in Winter Soldier, Hulk in Thor Ragnarok, Iron Man in Spidey Homecoming, and the upcoming Doc Strange with Wanda... Maybe Thor/Guardians?

But yeah, I think the big Avengers-style team up films are not going to feature for Marvel for quite a while now, and that would have been the perfect opportunity to hype Justice League as its own thing rather than "competing".

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

(think I'll turn this into a general DC movies thread)

I hope the Batman movie isn't going to be too early in his career, there's no real need for an origin story - I'm pretty sure Batman's origin is in "everyone knows" territory, so they'd be better off just getting on with it.

I'm not a member any comicsy forums or anything - comics online fandom is awful - but a comparison I read somewhere was James Bond. Whenever the lead changes, they don't start his career from the beginning. He just gets on with Bondy things.

The Zero Year comics were good. It was right after Bruce started being Batman, but before he had any Robins or met most of his enemies, etc. Actually, Riddler was one of the main villains in that story, and he's going to be in The Batman, so that could be a good shout!

I doubt it'll be an origin story, Rpatz isn't THAT young (mid-30's) so I'd imagine an "established Batman" but they'll definitely be going for an earlier batman than the "bruised and broken" Affleck Batman who (it is at least strongly implied) had already put away all of his major villains pre-BvS.

I hope they stick with the overall style from BvS though and don't tone down the violence. BvS batman was snapping limbs and cracking skulls and it was great .

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I hope they stick with the overall style from BvS though and don't tone down the violence. BvS batman was snapping limbs and cracking skulls and it was great .

As long as he doesn't kill!!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

As long as he doesn't kill!!

What the extended ultimate edition fight scene where he's saving Martha (Clark's one, obviously)... I don't think they explicitly show deaths but some of those guys are clearly ****ing dead . Or at least paralysed for life or in a coma. At one point he hits a guy so hard that he flips and lands on his head. It's great

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

What the extended ultimate edition fight scene where he's saving Martha (Clark's one, obviously)... I don't think they explicitly show deaths but some of those guys are clearly ****ing dead . Or at least paralysed for life or in a coma. At one point he hits a guy so hard that he flips and lands on his head. It's great

I still need to watched the extended BvS!! I was reading online that the studio wanted the runtime cut down, and due to things needing to be set up a lot of the stuff cut was plot related things, or something.

In the Batman comic I'm on now he's fixated with breaking Bane's back Well sort of, if Bane doesn't release the guy who can cure Gotham Girl.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I still need to watched the extended BvS!! I was reading online that the studio wanted the runtime cut down, and due to things needing to be set up a lot of the stuff cut was plot related things, or something.

They cut about 35 mins for the theatrical cut - the main issue is that they didn't cut full scenes/rework things to achieve that... they cut little bits here, little bits there, and the end result was a film that was choppy and seemed to jump from scene to scene like it had ADHD. The ultimate edition just has a much better "flow" to it and, as a result, weaves a far superior story. IIRC there were also a few Lex scenes cut from the theatrical version that made his motivations seem really unclear to the point of being random/chaotic which is obviously not the character at all, but when they're back in there you can see the ways that he's much more cold, intelligent and calculating. The most VITAL difference being that it becomes clear that Lex has had a major role in deliberately tweaking things here and there, and pulling little strings, that have contributed to Bruce's idea that Superman is dangerous and lead him down the path he's on in BvS. Which is sort of an essential plot point if you give a **** about the lore at all.

I still don't particularly rate Jesse Eisenberg's interpretation of the character, but it at least vastly improves my impression of how it was written.

I find it quite interesting really just from a "film-fan" perspective. No one cut that was made is huge on its own, yet the restored version is in my opinion a FAR superior film. Part of why I'm so hyped/fascinated to see the new JL cut where by all accounts the changes were much bigger.


Obligatory to add though: "Hey lol both of our mums are called Martha?" is still the dumbest and least plausible reason for the fighting to suddenly stop and Bats+Supes to become BFF's I can imagine. I know it's supposed to be indicative of a "light bulb" moment for Bruce realising that there's a man with a whole other life under the cape, and he's not just the god-like figure in the cape... but it doesn't land right. The writing there is so bad . Wish they'd do a third cut where they replace that with some longer exposition .

Oh a final point: Steppenwolf was briefly introduced (communicating with Luthor) and that was also cut... which had the knock-on effect of making his introduction in JL seem totally random. I have no idea why they'd cut foreshadowing like that from the theatrical release. Just lots of very odd choices. There are plenty of other scenes that could have been snipped or shortened to whittle away 30 mins... but they chose loads of story-critical stuff. I feel like whoever did the cutting decided that they were keeping all of the action intact, so all of the cuts had to come from the plot. Which was a mistake.

Funnily enough... these days I think they'd just have left the film at 3h in the cinema . There was an idea at the time that audiences wouldn't tolerate a film longer than 2.5h. It's still sort of a thing I guess - they did consider chopping Infinity War/Endgame into a trilogy of shorter movies instead of a two-parter, too.

[Oliver_W]

I'm convinced, I'm gonna watch the extended cut of BvS asap

Yeah Lex came off like the Joker or something. If the Snyderverse version of him was meant to be a bit of a basketcase I could (reluctantly!) go along with it, but I don't really think that's what he was going for.

Oh I didn't know Steppenwolf was originally in BvS, I thought his role in JL was originally going to be Darkseid, but he was replaced after Snyder left?
It'd be cool if the Female Furies were fighting the Amazonians, They recently had a pretty decent comic miniseries by Cecil Castellucci, and having them cameo could open the door for a future movie.

Like I said in the "last movie watched" thread, I do prefer the animated DC movies over the live action ones.

[Oliver_W]

Spoiler:

Love this, the three then-future Robins and Batgirl being inspired by the then-new Bat Light <3

[Oliver_W]

Youtube video

Gahh it looks sooo good! And is blatantly a completely different movie to the #HollywoodHackCut from Whedon

Darkseid looks badass but I hope his CGI isn't finished yet because it's not great

[user104658]

I'm just pondering how much footage they must have shot for the film - there's basically NOTHING in the trailer that's in the original film . I think maybe the Aquaman-big-waves scene and that's it.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the CGI - it's probably not going to be quite big-screen-quality since TV effects never are, they just don't have the same budget. They can be pretty decent these days though and will likely still have some polishing up to do. Also while DC does superhero-effects very well IMO, their facial CGI is a bit "video gamey" compared to the Marvel movies... they just don't have those Disney-quality animators to lean on.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, I'm quite stunned about how much footage must have went unused, especially if there's enough to fill up multiple parts since they're releasing the film as a four part series, I believe so that's likely four hours of content.

I still don't hold out much hope of it being good, though. Man of Steel was passable and BVS was decent but Snyder's never really understood the DC universe and it's characters and I can't see it changing in this either.

[Smithy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'm just pondering how much footage they must have shot for the film - there's basically NOTHING in the trailer that's in the original film . I think maybe the Aquaman-big-waves scene and that's it.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope for the CGI - it's probably not going to be quite big-screen-quality since TV effects never are, they just don't have the same budget. They can be pretty decent these days though and will likely still have some polishing up to do. Also while DC does superhero-effects very well IMO, their facial CGI is a bit "video gamey" compared to the Marvel movies... they just don't have those Disney-quality animators to lean on.

90% of the film was scrapped and reshot

[Oliver_W]

There was tons of reshoots, and last I heard some new footage will be shot too.