[Denver]

Why was my last post deleted? It was explaining why BAME should get more funding so doesn't make sense why it was deleted

[Marsh.]

And my response responding to this below:

Originally Posted by Swan

Agreed. But the parents should also be held accountable. Many very bright kids are held back by terrible parenting!

[Swan]

Grow up where i grew up, 70% black, and see what they really want, not you white SJW's fighting for them over the internet, but actual equality. Where we're from a blokes a bloke, black or white. You people have NO idea the every day struggle that goes on in council block homing the poor. We stuck together, we had to, and no one had any kind of privilege black or white. Parenting was poor, and we tried to make the best for ourselves. We were in that boat together.

Real unity and equality right there. Something most you people with never understand!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Swan

Grow up where i grew up, 70% black, and see what they really want, not you white SJW's fighting for them over the internet, but actual equality. Where we're from a blokes a bloke, black or white. You people have NO idea the every day struggle that goes on in council block homing the poor. We stuck together, we had to, and no one had any kind of privilege black or white. Parenting was poor, and we tried to make the best for ourselves. We were in that boat together.

Real unity and equality right there. Something most you people with never understand!

Pointing out black people have it worse does not take away any struggles white people have had. It's an entirely separate point.

The fact you're this sensitive about the notion of anyone being worse off than you shows an inability to be rational and logical.

No amount of childish tantrums, swearing, black relatives and making assumptions about my upbringing changes that.

[Swan]

It's called passion marsh. You will NOT bring me down on this. We struggled, black and white meant nothing to us kids, we had nothing. But we was united!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Swan

It's called passion marsh. You will NOT bring me down on this. We struggled, black and white meant nothing to us kids, we had nothing. But we was united!

It's called passion to deny other people's struggles because you want to believe your struggle was worse?

No.

[Marsh.]

The fact you believe your own anecdotal evidence is enough to make such a broad statement about racism in this entire country whilst simultaneously ridiculing my own experiences (which you know nothing of) is certainly an interesting attempt at this debate.

[Liam-]

Sharing a similar class or background with black people, doesn’t mean we don’t have an unfair societal advantage over black people because of our skin colour, again, the word ‘privilege’ is being conflated with someone completely irrelevant

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

It's called passion to deny other people's struggles because you want to believe your struggle was worse?

No.

I never said 'mine' i said OURS, black/white, same boat!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Swan

I never said 'mine' i said OURS, black/white, same boat!

Sure.

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Swan

Grow up where i grew up, 70% black, and see what they really want, not you white SJW's fighting for them over the internet, but actual equality. Where we're from a blokes a bloke, black or white. You people have NO idea the every day struggle that goes on in council block homing the poor. We stuck together, we had to, and no one had any kind of privilege black or white. Parenting was poor, and we tried to make the best for ourselves. We were in that boat together.

Real unity and equality right there. Something most you people with never understand!

Your ignorance is insane. . Just because there is class privilege, it doesn’t mean White Privilege can’t be a thing either. They can both exist to your shock and horror.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Give me an example, one example of something that changed due to a gradual societal shift that was not spurned by some catalyst, movement or protest.



Did we all wake up one morning and want equal rights for many groups? decent housing? Fair wages?

I agree that movements have always worked as catalysts to spark up or rev the engines of change, yes, but the problem at the moment is not the beginnings of the movement - its that whenever there is a constructive movement or protest that IS sparking up that conversation and acting as a catalyst... It isn't allowed to do that. People don't let it act as a catalyst. They protest for change and then almost immediately go to "WHY hasn't the change we were looking for happened already? We were clear in what we want, why can't we see the change yet?" and there's a belief that it must be because there's a need to shout louder, or do something more visible, to be heard. Not realising that the effect it actually has, is that people who actually were listening start thinking "Ohhh I'm feeling a bit uncomfortable now" and they don't turn against it, but they do disengage and move on to a cause that's in their comfort zone.

Morally right? Nah. Pathetic? Yes quite pathetic. But neither of those things change the fact, nor the consequence.

At the end of the day, a movement needs some sort of mass appeal to succeed. And mass appeal is flimsy, watered down, weak and basic. A bitter, bitter medicine to swallow but I can't see it being any other way.

To flip the question back on you; give me one example of a societal shift that has occurred before the shouting stopped? That's not saying there should be no shouting. But it has to be interspersed with pausing to listen and observe, to see what's working and what isn't, and to adjust accordingly.

2020 politics is "shout loud, and if it doesn't seem to be working, shout more, and louder, and more aggressively".

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

Your ignorance is insane. . Just because there is class privilege, it doesn’t mean White Privilege can’t be a thing either. They can both exist to your shock and horror.

No it isn't, i admitted a privilege is there, but for certain classes!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Swan

No it isn't, i admitted a privilege is there, but for certain classes!

There can be more than one privilege at play. Several, in fact.

[Kizzy]

A conversation. .. is that the best you have?
You as a young white male seem very certain of the struggles that have affected the BAME communities in recent years.
Apart from the fact obviously that this is not a situation in its infancy, the macpherson report highlighted the need for institutional reform within the police do recent events suggest that has happened?

What do you suggest will give equality 'mass appeal'? Maybe having the tabloids not spew out divisive articles demonising groups year in year out. Not having characters like farage and hopkins thrust into the spotlight to reinforce that narrative?

To answer to your question I can think of many examples of societal shifts before the shouting stopped, the plight of refugees being one, after all wars it is the people of this country that battled to aid those in need when our govt refused.
There will be other examples I could find if you like?
It's not just 2020 that spurned this approach, it's helped though the pandemic has everyone in the mindset that you have to in some way force decisions because the powers that be are so slow to act and react.
I see it as a good thing, we need to see real change and that change working, not mealy mouthed MPs or empty promises.

[Ammi]

..’...racism is not just an American problem, it’s a British problem, it’s a global problem...’....words from British Vogue editor, Edward Enninful, on racial profiling...and showing how it crosses all classes...he was racially profiled in his own office when a security guard told him to use the loading bay when he was coming into work...‘White privilege’ is exactly described there, that type of profiling tends to be specific to a skin colour...A white executive arriving at the Vogue offices would have been recognised/profiled as such...He’s also attended marches and talks about how uniting they are and how peaceful and how if anything at all positive could have been taken from George Floyd’s murder, it is this united voice which is striving for equality...it’s not a ‘black thing’, just as feminism isn’t a ‘woman thing’...there is only people like Nigel Farage and the like minded who seem to feel opposed to that...I see nothing but support, otherwise...

[Ammi]

British Vogue editor Edward Enninful is glad he was racially profiled at work because it reminds him never to think of himself as "too successful".

Speaking to Sky News on the day that Vogue revealed its September issue was produced by a predominantly black team, Mr Enninful says systemic racism is a global problem.

The editor of the fashion bible made headlines across the world when he tweeted about being racially profiled at Vogue House when a security guard told him to use the loading bay when he arrived at work.

Recalling the incident, he said he is glad that it happened because it reminds him never to think that he is too well-known.

He said: "It wasn't an isolated incident. Of course, it takes you back to all those moments in your life when that sort of thing has happened.


He added: "It's important that something like this did happen, because it reminds me never to think I am too well-known or too established, because to somebody you are another black person."


...also a video of the interview...

https://news.sky.com/story/british-v...y-day-12041746

[Nicky91]

there is white privilege in every ''class''


white people in UK, USA never know any struggle, they never lose their jobs, never known poverty, never known wars, conflicts


the white privilege have nothing to complain or moan about

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

there is white privilege in every ''class''


white people never know any struggle, they never lose their jobs, never known poverty, never known wars, conflicts


the white privilege have nothing to complain or moan about

Ok I think you have misunderstood.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

there is white privilege in every ''class''


white people never know any struggle, they never lose their jobs, never known poverty, never known wars, conflicts


the white privilege have nothing to complain or moan about

not sure that is strictly correct Nicky... maybe you could start with looking at Irish history

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Denver

For all those who say white privilege doesn't exist in the UK please explain why the black race is the most under educated and most likely to be living on the lowest incomes? Black majority boroughs in London are some of the worst places to live in the UK when the government should be doing everything to improves those places

Originally Posted by Denver

Bull **** I can tell you know black parents do not raise their children to get into gangs and crime that all happens because these areas are not funded

There you go, answered your own question

a clever black working class kid living somewhere else would have the same chances as an equally bright white kid from down the road.

Originally Posted by Denver

and also a black person is less likely to get a job over a white person even if they are better qualified.

Source?

Originally Posted by Denver

There needs to be a huge amount of funding into developing BAME areas and give those kids the same chance a white kid would get

Agreed.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

not sure that is strictly correct Nicky... maybe you could start with looking at Irish history

i forgot to be more specific, at UK, USA


you are correct Cherie about that anyway

[Strictly Jake]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

i forgot to be more specific, at UK, USA


you are correct Cherie about that anyway

No that is also incorrect

White people from every nation have known struggles, loss of jobs, poverty and conflict. It was a very strange thing to say

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

A conversation. .. is that the best you have?
You as a young white male seem very certain of the struggles that have affected the BAME communities in recent years.
Apart from the fact obviously that this is not a situation in its infancy, the macpherson report highlighted the need for institutional reform within the police do recent events suggest that has happened?

What do you suggest will give equality 'mass appeal'? Maybe having the tabloids not spew out divisive articles demonising groups year in year out. Not having characters like farage and hopkins thrust into the spotlight to reinforce that narrative?

To answer to your question I can think of many examples of societal shifts before the shouting stopped, the plight of refugees being one, after all wars it is the people of this country that battled to aid those in need when our govt refused.
There will be other examples I could find if you like?
It's not just 2020 that spurned this approach, it's helped though the pandemic has everyone in the mindset that you have to in some way force decisions because the powers that be are so slow to act and react.
I see it as a good thing, we need to see real change and that change working, not mealy mouthed MPs or empty promises.

I hope you're right and will welcome any change if it comes. I worry that images like these - while I understand the emotion behind them - will be too easily turned into negative press and represent a "net loss".

However its true that it's not my fight, I can only do my best to try to support it, which in this case as an observer means saying that I'm unsure of the approach. Obviously I could be wrong, and we'll see how it develops.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Strictly Jake

No that is also incorrect

White people from every nation have known struggles, loss of jobs, poverty and conflict. It was a very strange thing to say

but never encountered racial discrimination

all white people are privileged in that way, never experienced that


yes i am white too, and i admit i know nothing about what coloured people go through (if i'm allowed to say it like that)