[LeatherTrumpet]

Youtube video

Some excellent analysis all around his new book

Douglas Kear Murray (born 16 July 1979) is a British conservative author and political commentator.He founded the Centre for Social Cohesion in 2007, which became part of the Henry Jackson Society, where he was Associate Director from 2011 to 2018. He is also an associate editor of the British political and cultural magazine The Spectator.

Murray has written columns for publications such as Standpoint and The Wall Street Journal. He is the author of Neoconservatism: Why We Need It (2005), Bloody Sunday: Truths, Lies and the Saville Inquiry (2011) about the Bloody Sunday Inquiry, The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam (2017), and The Madness of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity (2019).

[arista]

Yes Douglas a Great Writer

[Tom4784]

Two entitled white guys meet up to talk about issues they don't know jack **** about in order to minimise issues that will never affect them.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

entitled white guys meet up to talk about issues they don't know jack **** about in order to minimise issues that will never affect them.

SD&N in a nutshell

[LeatherTrumpet]

2 important famous men

Let's not pretend guys...

Lol

[Marsh.]

Famous? Oh well....

[LeatherTrumpet]

Yes

[Liam-]

Horrible little racists

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Horrible little racists

Name calling is playground

[Marsh.]

Danni Dyer is famous, let's ask her for a comment too.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Watch the video , make a comment on the contents, let's judge what you say

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Famous? Oh well....

Exactly Marsh.

They're maybe famous,in my view that is not necessarily a positive.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Horrible little racists

If you watched the video, they're actually saying how proud they are of how far Britain as come as far as race is concerned, and happy we're nothing like the US in that way.

Like Douglas Murray said in that interview, he grew up around people of many different ethnic backgrounds, and it's just a 'who cares' kinda attitude, people are people. And you know what, that's completely how it is for most people who grow up, and live in mixed/diverse communities and cities. They're just not arsed and get on with their own business.

It's got the point now where by being white, your racist by default. It's just such a strange way of thinking. And even more irony, most people i see angered by 'white privilege' are white 'privileged' people themselves.

[Ammi]

..I’m not going to click and watch just because there are certain things and sites etc that I’m not going to play the click game with anymore, or at least atm...never say never etc, etc...so I have very little comment/contribution etc...I do think though that political opinions and politically related opinions are such a seesaw atm of opposite ends, more so than I’ve seen before, I mean ...and I think there are a lot of modern day reasons for that with the referendum vote and social media rise and the political game in general...(..as I see it personally...)...being quite a bit of a personal career thing, rather than a desire for change for a country etc and just so many reasons, there are always so many layers to these things....anyways, the left sometimes seems to veer more left and the right seems to veer more right on that seesaw of opposite ends...and very little in that centre balance...or at least, very little being vocal, it might be...I think the middle also though is a lady called Irony, which applies to both ...(...which I guess is why the opposites are getting further and further/seem to be...)...because ironic can apply to both at different times and on different things etc...an equally ironic lady in the centre which left and right pick up like a stone to throw at each other from time to time...(...which ironically means regularly, probably...)...

...anyways, I was less familiar with Douglas Murray than Nigel Farage...so just looking at The Strange Death of Europe, for instance...and one review written about it and about him/his views...

‘His pessimism about multiculturalism is so well constructed and written it is almost uplifting.’


...which is surely and ironically a contradiction ...he is pessimistic about multiculturalism and yet people are people and who cares, etc he’s fine with that since his childhood...anyways, I just found that interesting...(..and yes very ironic with him..)...because I was less familiar with him, so that shone out immediately when I looked at who he was etc...

[Toy Soldier]

I watched the video. Any aspects of it that are thought provoking (and don't get me wrong, they are there) are unfortunately over-shadowed by the fact that both men are sat there being blinkered arseholes and ignoring nuance completely in the other direction. Just more culture war nonsense. Farage descends into outright baiting by the end.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I watched the video. Any aspects of it that are thought provoking (and don't get me wrong, they are there) are unfortunately over-shadowed by the fact that both men are sat there being blinkered arseholes and ignoring nuance completely in the other direction. Just more culture war nonsense. Farage descends into outright baiting by the end.

his whole career consists out of trolling and baiting so no surprise there

[LeatherTrumpet]

DOuglas has written an excellent article in the Telegraph today:

It’s in the UK’s national interest for Trump to triumph

Is there anyone in the world who cannot list Donald Trump’s flaws? They seem so manifest and so multiple
that even thinking of doing so evokes thoughts of barrels, shooting and fish. His unwillingness to ever miss
an opportunity to boast. His career-long devotion to exaggeration. His desire to talk up everything about
himself and talk down everything about anyone else. This and much more can all be held against him and regularly is.

He is also one of the most successful figures in US history. In his career before the presidency he made a fortune,
lost a fortune, made a fortune again, then ran for president and – having never held political office –
gained the presidency on his first try. You don’t need to admire him, let alone love him, to notice that
there is something uncommon about him. And uncommon people – especially uncommonly successful people –
generally have something worth teaching.

Opinion polls suggest that the British people have never warmed to Trump and find his vulgarity as well as
what news about him filters through to be reason enough to dismiss him. But taking this view deprives us of
something. Not least an ability to learn what it is about Trump that makes him appealing to a significant proportion
of the American public and what has made aspects of his time in office a success. Listing Trump’s virtues may be
harder than listing his flaws, but still they are there and worth highlighting.

Take Trump abroad. The revelations about him – not least in John Bolton’s recent memoir – can be hair-raising without a doubt.
The President’s lack of awareness about major aspects of foreign policy. His ignorance of basic things (such as – apparently –
this country being a nuclear power) are enough to instil in the foreign policy establishment a desire to have a lie down.
And yet those same foreign policy establishments have been shown to be wrong time and again.
Whether it is intelligence failures over WMDs, or a total lack of foresight over nearly any major
event (such as the so-called Arab Spring) we have of late had a foreign policy establishment that can hardly point
to a single success. What is more, among most candidates for the US presidency, it seemed to have become
a prerequisite for office to appeal to the American public on the basis that you’d be keener than any of your
opponents to send American troops into battle. Any battle.

Trump reversed all of that, promising to prevent America being dragged into quagmires around the world.
Of course there are consequences to America’s withdrawal. But Trump was not wrong when he berated the
foreign policy failures of his predecessors and rivals. Had Hillary Clinton achieved the Oval Office, it is almost
certain that she would have got her country into one or more conflicts in the Middle East among other places.

The person who actually won the 2016 race has done no such thing. He has not only stuck to his promise
not to get America into any more wars, he has done things that his predecessors would never have done
without getting America into endless such conflicts.



Cast your mind back to January when American forces killed General Qasem Soleimani.
The moment the killing of Iran’s foremost general was announced, the entire foreign policy
commentariat went into overdrive. “Is this our era’s Franz Ferdinand moment?” they asked.
And that was just the less excitable ones. There seemed a general belief – once again –
that Trump was going to get us all killed. And yet – once again – he didn’t. American forces
took out Iran’s leading general, a man who had overseen the deaths of countless numbers of
British and American troops, not to mention Iraqi and other civilians in the area, and Iran took it.
Not least because they seemed to fear that they were dealing with a madman.

It is the same with the other notable foreign policy strides of his presidency. Whether it is the still
under-heralded but utterly historic Israel-UAE peace deal. Or his unexpected efforts to address the
problem of North Korea. Time and again Trump has done bold, brash and often nail-biting things in
the foreign arena. But he has come through them. Like all presidents he could have done more in
other places. But in the areas that Trump has applied himself to, he has made quite extraordinary
achievements. And the fact that he is unpredictable and perhaps even a little crazy (an impression
we must hope that he works at cultivating) can be a great virtue in the international arena.

Likewise when it comes to the only major challenger to America’s global economic and military
dominance, Trump has been able to do things that none of his opponents would ever have
dreamed of doing. His re-building of the American military has not been done in order to use it
against third-rate despots and tinpot terrorist groups (who have demonstrated an uncanny ability
to play America to a draw in recent conflicts). Rather he has built it up in order to demonstrate to
China that American military dominance will not be allowed to dwindle away. He knows that if you
have military dominance, an awful lot of other games can also come into play.

Is there another candidate (in 2016 or now in 2020) who knows better than Trump the game
that is now in motion with Beijing? If there is then is there any other who would have been willing
to slap tariffs on the country, bring back jobs from China and much more in the way that Trump has
done? Long before the coronavirus hit, Trump had warmed up the American people to understand the
threat that China posed to them. Not as a military power but as an economic rival. An economic rival
whose actions were directly affecting the wage-packets of American workers. No European leader has
managed to do anything like that. And America’s desire to play the Chinese at their own game is a
major global play that is highly unlikely to survive the Trump presidency.

And then there are the issues that are of more immediate relevance to the UK. Most important of
which is the US-UK trade deal currently under negotiation. It seems unlikely that this deal will be
completed before the presidential election. Not for any lack of will on either side, but simply because
of the time it takes for the details of such agreements to be ironed out. The excellent trade teams on
both sides of these discussions want to arrive at a deal and given the opportunity they will do. The
good will in Washington and from the team around Trump is not to be ignored. Compare that with the
“back of the queue” that Trump’s predecessor said a post-Brexit Britain would be sent to.

On these issues and more, there are successes that this administration has achieved which are
worth reflecting on. Of course some will judge that these do not outweigh the negatives. Others
will accuse me of seeking to use a low tool for high purposes. But there are only two people on the
ballot this November. And the one most frequently presented as the most unstable and unpredictable
may yet prove to be the one who will give this country and the wider world the period of greater success and calm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...trump-triumph/

[Nicky91]

''Cast your mind back to January when American forces killed General Qasem Soleimani.''

yes Trump still needs to pay for that murder, Iranian government still want their justice

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

''Cast your mind back to January when American forces killed General Qasem Soleimani.''

yes Trump still needs to pay for that murder, Iranian government still want their justice

i am afraid there is no such thing as justice in Iran

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

And uncommon people – especially uncommonly successful people – generally have something worth teaching.

Pffffff. Uncommonly successful people are usually either utterly ruthless, slithering con-men, or a combination of the two. Trump is a ruthless con-man. That's what he has to teach us.

The rest of that opinion piece hinges on the premise that there's anything more to it than that.

A disillusioned population of dumb people and a narcissistic liar who was willing and able to take advantage of that. It's not a complicated or fascinating story, nor is it a mystery.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Pffffff. Uncommonly successful people are usually either utterly ruthless, slithering con-men, or a combination of the two. Trump is a ruthless con-man. That's what he has to teach us.

The rest of that opinion piece hinges on the premise that there's anything more to it than that.

A disillusioned population of dumb people and a narcissistic liar who was willing and able to take advantage of that. It's not a complicated or fascinating story, nor is it a mystery.

"A disillusioned population of dumb people"

when you start down this road TS you have lost the argument

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"A disillusioned population of dumb people"

when you start down this road TS you have lost the argument

Only if you're making dumbness partisan; I'm not saying the reds are dumb and the blues are clever. Most people are dumb and easily lead, and the disillusionment isn't even really arguable... he fought a platform of anti-establishment and getting away from career politicians.

I'm not even trying to win an argument or convince anyone of anything. I know that calling people dumb doesn't win anyone over but I have no interest in winning anyone over to anything at all . Pointing out that the average person is dumb as a bag of spanners is just an observation.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"A disillusioned population of dumb people"

when you start down this road TS you have lost the argument

well if you vote for trump you aren't very smart either, especially now everyone can see he has massively flopped in handling the coronacrisis completely wrong

also abolishing of ObamaCare was a bad move from Trump for middle-class people

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Swan

If you watched the video, they're actually saying how proud they are of how far Britain as come as far as race is concerned, and happy we're nothing like the US in that way.

Like Douglas Murray said in that interview, he grew up around people of many different ethnic backgrounds, and it's just a 'who cares' kinda attitude, people are people. And you know what, that's completely how it is for most people who grow up, and live in mixed/diverse communities and cities. They're just not arsed and get on with their own business.
.

I don't know who Douglas Murray is, but he's right - people who bang on about race and racism sound like they spend most of their time on the internet, and never really speak to real people. Obviously there are racists out there, but they're rare. Virtually no-one cares what colour skin someone's got.

[The Slim Reaper]

Farage has been a known nazi sympathiser since his school days, so let's not pretend that his supporters feel any differently.