[parmnion]

But you were being persecuted as well toy soldier...simply for either being the bookie or working for one, so it's exactly the same thing...but you held your cool, because you aint naturally violent in nature, unike your customers and these three violent people in this video..

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by parmnion

But you were being persecuted as well toy soldier...simply for either being the bookie or working for one, so it's exactly the same thing...but you held your cool, because you aint naturally violent in nature, unike your customers and these three violent people in this video..

I wouldn't go that far Parmy - I don't think bookies have much of a moral high-ground and there's a reason (many reasons but it did boil down to morality in the end) that I took a different path. I do also think the reasons that some people are more predisposed to violence than others can be very complex. My point really was that in my actual experience of facing off with some very aggressive older people is that it just doesn't feel like a physically threatening situation at all so I can't buy into this idea that it was physical self defence or that they genuinely felt physically threatened. Some big blokes can be physically intimidating well into their 50's and 60's, certainly, but 70+? And also we can see this guy in the video, he just isn't intimidating at all. I don't understand how someone can see a sad, bitter old character like that and not just think "Wow, what a miserable mindset", maybe have a few words for them, but taking that step to take a full on swing at a brittle old head? Mind-boggling. I don't think it IS much different to a large grown man taking a swing at a kid, or a much smaller woman.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Where have I said what people should do instead of applauding violence, other than "not applauding violence"?

Unless the suggestion is that if we can appreciate and understand why someone takes an action that we think is wrong... We should just "say nothing"?

"Oh I think that's a problematic and damaging message to be putting out into the world but I can understand why they feel that way - so I'll just not counter it in any way."

What a bleak future.

It was a reply to girth, read back it went along the lines of 'rise above it' or some such tosh.

Walk a mile in another man's shoes.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

read back it went along the lines of 'rise above it' or some such tosh.

It's a 16 page thread, I can only be honest and say that's not going to happen

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

While it may sound like an extremely odd flex - [B]agree, violence in and I would say around 5 or 6 that involved a shove, clothing being grabbed, a vague swing being taken and while I was never actually punched, the worst incident did involve tables being flipped & chairs thrown.

I will I suppose add that there was obviously no race element, and also that I was working at the time (although I don't think that part is relevant in terms of talking about people losing their temper - I certainly didn't have any sort of conflict training).

But I can say with absolute certainty that I have never and would never take a swing at an old man, because the likelihood of serious harm is just too high. Being really blunt... In those situations they seem pathetic, a bit sad, and you're mainly worried that if they don't calm down they're going to end up hurting themself.

Is that when you worked in the gambling industry?.

I see what you're saying and I agree. Violence is never the answer but theres more than that.

[parmnion]

I'm all for the violent reaction to a younger guy spouting the monkey word though..so I dknt agree with violence never being an option.. just one sided violence dont sit right with me...

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GiRTh

Then people need to keep their hands to themselves.

That’s the crux of it

[Ammi]

...obviously there is still much to be confirmed/clarified with this ...but I think what has been a vein throughout this thread is that ..‘violence’ is never the answer’ type thing can’t always be applied ...in that violence won’t solve etc but there are situations that it could become a ‘probable’ in reaction to something.../..a chain of events and provocations, type thing...there are just too many grey areas...

...we teach our children not to use violence but that’s a whole ‘big lesson’ as well when we teach them...it’s not just a ..well, don’t do it, it’s never the answer../type black and white thing...because we also ...(...not just in regarding to violence...)..teach them consequences of words and actions when those words and actions become extreme ...’well if you take a swing at someone..(..as reported here...)...then that person might just take a swing back and you might be the one who is more hurt...because you’ve just lost control/you’ve ‘invited something’....so that’s a whole big thing as well ...the older guy felt that physically laying his hands on..(...if that’s true as has been said...)...was ‘the answer‘ when hands were pushed off the holding bar on the bus..then ‘his answer’ was racial abuse...then he changed his answer to taking a swing at...he had many answers it seems, but he didn’t consider a possible reply to his own answers....

...I personally would never applaud any violence in any way because I abhor it...(...except in a movie type situation ....when a bully or abusive person/racist person..)...’gets a slap/ a comeuppance..’../...type thing and I know that I shouldn’t but I do sometimes ‘applaud’ and say yayyyyyyy...but it’s sometimes easy to see what that can happen as well...

...it’s just sad that it would feel that the older guy didn’t have that ‘violence is never the answer’ chat with his parents when a swing was apparently taken..../...and the prejudice isn’t the answer chat...and the verbally abusing people isn’t the answer chat and etc...and etc...it’s good to get the chats done long before becoming an older person...

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I wouldn't be jumping around celebrating that an old guy got punched however it's hard to have sympathy either when he's got such a vile mouth on him

Same here tbh.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I'm all for the violent reaction to a younger guy spouting the monkey word though..so I dknt agree with violence never being an option.. just one sided violence dont sit right with me...

It's very easy to say that though when you aren't the one being targeted.

To me whilst what happened to the old man is clearly wrong morally, it's also a natural Human reaction imo to lash out if you're being verbally/racially abused by a stranger.