[Tom4784]

Black lives matter in itself, is not a political issue, it's literally saying black lives matter.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Black lives matter is not a political issue, it's literally saying black lives matter.

But it can be BLM Political.
Which is why she made an error to put it on
in USA Education.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Black lives matter is not a political issue, it's literally saying black lives matter.

It's currently the #2 issue in global sociopolitical discourse so the suggestion that it isn't a political issue is either disingenuous or misunderstands the definition of "politics". A virus "isn't political" either, except that obviously, it is.

BLM isn't party-political (thankfully it isn't, in the UK anyway) and it shouldn't be partisan either (sadly, it seemingly is, everywhere). It clearly is a political issue. I would imagine that in Texas it's more political than pretty much anywhere else in the western world.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's currently the #2 issue in global sociopolitical discourse so the suggestion that it isn't a political issue is either disingenuous or misunderstands the definition of "politics". A virus "isn't political" either, except that obviously, it is.

BLM isn't party-political (thankfully it isn't, in the UK anyway) and it shouldn't be partisan either (sadly, it seemingly is, everywhere). It clearly is a political issue. I would imagine that in Texas it's more political than pretty much anywhere else in the western world.

Three words are three words. The phrase itself is not political and to heap anymore meaning than that onto a person wearing a mask with that written on is to make assumptions.

Neither Covid, nor the idea of black lives being equal to everyone else's should not be political issues.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Three words are three words. The phrase itself is not political and to heap anymore meaning than that onto a person wearing a mask with that written on is to make assumptions.

Neither Covid, nor the idea of black lives being equal to everyone else's should not be political issues.

To suggest that the phrase "black lives matter" isn't inherently linked to black rights, and that civil rights are not a political issue, is a bold stance but I doubt it's one that's likely to change in people who hold it so I'm going to do the unthinkable and just leave my point (that I think it clearly is a political issue) as it is and move on.

So the secondary point is that if the employer has a policy of no messaging of any kind on clothing, then employees either have to follow that policy, find another job that falls more in line with their values, or try to organise like-minded people in asking the employer to change the policy. Again, you don't just decide that you don't like the policy and go against it, then do shocked pikachu face when that's considered misconduct. Like I said before, I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever worked for an employer knows this. And I say that as someone who DID make the decision to drastically change employment type from an employer that was full of **** in a dodgy industry to one that falls more in line with my personal values.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To suggest that the phrase "black lives matter" isn't inherently linked to black rights, and that civil rights are not a political issue, is a bold stance but I doubt it's one that's likely to change in people who hold it so I'm going to do the unthinkable and just leave my point (that I think it clearly is a political issue) as it is and move on.

So the secondary point is that if the employer has a policy of no messaging of any kind on clothing, then employees either have to follow that policy, find another job that falls more in line with their values, or try to organise like-minded people in asking the employer to change the policy. Again, you don't just decide that you don't like the policy and go against it, then do shocked pikachu face when that's considered misconduct. Like I said before, I'm pretty sure anyone who has ever worked for an employer knows this. And I say that as someone who DID make the decision to drastically change employment type from an employer that was full of **** in a dodgy industry to one that falls more in line with my personal values.

I'm not suggesting anything about the cause, to some people black lives matter just means acknowledging they matter, to others like me, it's a civil rights issue. Both are valid.

[Denver]

Originally Posted by arista

Not it's not good for Education
BLM is Extreme Left Wing

I'd argue that using schools to educate how important the subject of racism is, is a very good thing

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not suggesting anything about the cause, to some people black lives matter just means acknowledging they matter, to others like me, it's a civil rights issue. Both are valid.

But on a contextless piece of clothing, how do you tell the difference? I don't even think it's necessarily a problem for it to be ambiguous but again that goes back to the "employer" issue - with a large employer, or somewhere like a school, they can't always offer a nuanced case-by-case basis and so it has to be a blanket policy or you end up tied up forever in discussions of "Well if she's allowed [X], why am I not allowed [Y]?" and it's not a University... they're there to run a basic education programme... they simply don't have time.

And that just circles back round to the second point; if you don't like your employers policy you have to accept it anyway, leave, or try to get it changed and THEN do the thing you wanted to do. You can't just say "stuff the policy, I don't like it and I think it's wrong!" and go ahead with what you want to do and then cry unfair at being fired.

[Tom4784]

Racism is a part of America's DNA, it should absolutely be taught in school that racism is a thing and the effects it has had on the US as a whole.

No country should shy away from it's past when it comes to education, people would be better educated about the world if we followed in Germany's example in how they teach their students about the World Wars. It's unflinching, it doesn't shift blame or undermine the tragedy, they teach their kids not to repeat the same mistakes.

Our education would certainly be more well rounded if we learned a less rosey and more realistic version of our own history. Many people don't even know the damage the Empire did to the world, they think it's some glorious pinnacle of British history when it should be one of our greatest shames.

[Jigs]

I understand the no message on masks policy but we should also think about who the message is harming. It contains no profanity or rude symbols/inferences. If anything, it is a mark of respect. I think that the lives and self esteems of children (in particular black children) can be totally enriched by their exposure to positive messages of support, such as BLM. I would hold the same views if it were a rainbow mask or a statement about Trans lives.

BLM might be a political group but the message is strictly identity politics. That matters.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But on a contextless piece of clothing, how do you tell the difference? I don't even think it's necessarily a problem for it to be ambiguous but again that goes back to the "employer" issue - with a large employer, or somewhere like a school, they can't always offer a nuanced case-by-case basis and so it has to be a blanket policy or you end up tied up forever in discussions of "Well if she's allowed [X], why am I not allowed [Y]?" and it's not a University... they're there to run a basic education programme... they simply don't have time.

And that just circles back round to the second point; if you don't like your employers policy you have to accept it anyway, leave, or try to get it changed and THEN do the thing you wanted to do. You can't just say "stuff the policy, I don't like it and I think it's wrong!" and go ahead with what you want to do and then cry unfair at being fired.

The policy isn't something I've commented about either way because I don't really care to. I just think that 'Black Lives Matter' shouldn't be considered 'only' a political issue.

[Cherie]

If the school has a no message policy, then it is what it says on the tin..no messages, it doesn’t matter how worthy the message, allow one, you open the door to argument to allow others, I am sure the staff have better things to do with their time then spend it discussing the merits of individual messages, the teacher was in the wrong, its hard to believe that was the reason for her sacking though

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

If the school has a no message policy, then it is what it says on the tin..no messages, it doesn’t matter how worthy the message, allow one, you open the door to argument to allow others, I am sure the staff have better things to do with their time then spend it discussing the merits of individual messages, the teacher was in the wrong, its hard to believe that was the reason for her sacking though

I suspect the reason, if it is related to this, would be that they simply asked her to wear a different mask in the first instance and she's flat out refused. Thinking back to the dark days when I had to wear a uniform, I wouldn't have been sacked if the district supervisor came in and we were all sat there in jeans, but if it kept happening despite being specifically instructed not to do it, it would probably have lead to disciplinary action. Contract almost certainly stipulates adhering to uniform policy... you sign the contract when you start... so you have to follow the uniform policy .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I suspect the reason, if it is related to this, would be that they simply asked her to wear a different mask in the first instance and she's flat out refused. Thinking back to the dark days when I had to wear a uniform, I wouldn't have been sacked if the district supervisor came in and we were all sat there in jeans, but if it kept happening despite being specifically instructed not to do it, it would probably have lead to disciplinary action. Contract almost certainly stipulates adhering to uniform policy... you sign the contract when you start... so you have to follow the uniform policy .

There would be a protocol to follow is what I mean, ie verbal and written warnings, they couldn’t just go...get oot especially in the litigious US of A

[arista]

Originally Posted by Denver

I'd argue that using schools to educate how important the subject of racism is, is a very good thing

Yes Education on racism is a must.

But Teachers must not have home made
BLM masks.