[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

he has a special place in my heart and I’m only on ep 2,

Spoiler:

Oh nooo

[reece(:]

Omg I cried so much, so powerful.

And I had to binge watch, just had to.

[Ammi]

...episode 3 spoilers...

Spoiler:

...just so incredibly emotional, obviously Colin...but also how it’s now impacting the group in contrast to when AIDS became something that they felt was ‘American’ and their world felt untouchable and untouched by death..ughhhhh, will Richie go back for his results..that whole episode but the end scene with Richie and Live Forever playing...just no words, really.....

[thisisdanny]

Originally Posted by Ammi

......because of the times it’s set in and AIDS, it will be a rollercoaster with our emotions, Danny...and obviously we invest some of our hearts into the characters so yeah, it’ll be a difficult watch as well...

Yeah just from the end of the first episode I realised I wasn't strong enough to continue watching

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by thisisdanny

Yeah just from the end of the first episode I realised I wasn't strong enough to continue watching

...I think also, because we’re surrounded by such a grim world atm, Danny...it’s easy for the sadnesses of things we watch to absorb more as well because there is so little to distract and divert our focus...it’s easy also to feel more emotionally involved with the characters...we all have things that we just can’t watch atm, I think...I know I have...and it’s good to self preserve our emotions as you’re doing.....

[Rob!]

One of the best dramas I’ve ever watched. Sobbed so much by the end.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Spoiler:

Oh nooo

Spoiler:

watched ep 3 now, that came out out the blue I thought Colin was safe

[Ammi]

...just finished watching...

Spoiler:

...no words, really...it just tears you apart from the beginning to the end and it needed to have the lighter moments as well to make it bearable...Keeley Hawes as Richie’s mum was excellent as her character. Even though the character herself was really quite shocking in her behaviour and very dislike-able...in her heart she obviously deeply loved him but had no idea who he was because she didn’t want to see him and held that image of him that she wanted him to be...

...as heartbreaking as it was and as relentless AIDS was to the LGBT community at that time and as surrounded by fear and death they all became, the story still gave that great sense of love and family in their community.......huge deep breaths...

[thisisdanny]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I think also, because we’re surrounded by such a grim world atm, Danny...it’s easy for the sadnesses of things we watch to absorb more as well because there is so little to distract and divert our focus...it’s easy also to feel more emotionally involved with the characters...we all have things that we just can’t watch atm, I think...I know I have...and it’s good to self preserve our emotions as you’re doing.....

Yeah I did ask my friend what happened though, I know I made the right decision

[Toy Soldier]

It really is amazing how far we've come with HIV in the last decade or so, it was a death sentence for so many years and then for a long time after that, an endless tightrope of illness and balancing medications. These days, viral load can be brought down to almost undetectable levels and (so long as people are sensible and healthy), people can live a full life HIV positive and never develop AIDS. I think there are even a couple of cases of full recovery from HIV now, all traces gone from system.

It's also fascinating to see how it was thought of as "impossible" for anyone but gay men to catch it for such a long time... but the gay community did an excellent job of getting it under control relatively quickly by being careful... and these days, the majority of HIV transmission is from intravenous drug use. And even then, heroin users can live for years if not decades with HIV despite having extremely poor general health.

[Oliver_W]

It's quite shocking that -in some people's living memory- it was actively dangerous to be LGBT. Not just with AIDS, but societally too...

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's quite shocking that -in some people's living memory- it was actively dangerous to be LGBT. Not just with AIDS, but societally too...

Still is the case in many places

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Jake.

Still is the case in many places

Well sure, but it's also dangerous to be a woman in many of those same places. Some places are just trash but obviously I was only speaking for the West.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's quite shocking that -in some people's living memory- it was actively dangerous to be LGBT. Not just with AIDS, but societally too...

Originally Posted by Jake.

Still is the case in many places

...there was a quote that someone said in the series that really defined so much, I think...I can’t recall the words exactly but similar to...’if this was their heterosexual sons dying, there would be screaming and rioting in the streets...’...

[Jake.]

The ending to ep 2 was.. haunting.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Colin

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Jake.

The ending to ep 2 was.. haunting.

What was it icr

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jake.

The ending to ep 2 was.. haunting.

It was Jake.
Very powerful and really sad.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Fetch The Bolt Cutters

What was it icr

Finding out Gloria had died / his family burning all of his things in the garden

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Well sure, but it's also dangerous to be a woman in many of those same places. Some places are just trash but obviously I was only speaking for the West.

There's still parts of every UK city where you'll get verbal abuse for being openly gay, and then physically assaulted if you say anything back. OK, yes, it's mainly pubs/bars that I personally wouldn't ever be in by choice anyway ... but the fact remains, I *could* go to those places openly with my wife and be perfectly safe, whereas my friend definitely could not go there with his husband. Not as an obvious couple. They've been together 10 years and married for four, and I've seen them have to pretend to just be friends in public depending on the area, not because something would "definitely" happen but because enough has happened in the past for it not to be worth the hassle. It makes me equal parts sad and very angry.

I'm not saying it's not a hell of a lot better in the UK than in many other countries, the vast majority of places you would ever actually WANT to go are safe, but it's certainly not 100% "fine to be gay in the UK" quite yet.

Also you said "the West" not just the UK and there are huge parts of the US that are still heavily blinkered hardcore Christian and being openly gay would not be the most comfortable life.

[Toy Soldier]

The whole thing was pretty grim, well made though.

Spoiler:

I have to say I wasn't the BIGGEST fan of how the mother was portrayed in the final episode - a touch of misogyny going on in the writing there tbqfh - and also Jill going in on her so hard in the final scenes felt really off. Her son had literally JUST died and it didn't feel warranted or cathartic or anything... also didn't feel like what Ritchie would have wanted so made Jill come across as selfish in one of her final scenes? I dunno. Again not sure about the writing. Felt like it was written by someone who is not a parent. Hmm.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The whole thing was pretty grim, well made though.

Spoiler:

I have to say I wasn't the BIGGEST fan of how the mother was portrayed in the final episode - a touch of misogyny going on in the writing there tbqfh - and also Jill going in on her so hard in the final scenes felt really off. Her son had literally JUST died and it didn't feel warranted or cathartic or anything... also didn't feel like what Ritchie would have wanted so made Jill come across as selfish in one of her final scenes? I dunno. Again not sure about the writing. Felt like it was written by someone who is not a parent. Hmm.

I feel like you’ve just completely missed the point here my love

Yeah her son had just died but she didn’t even really know him (not that she was to blame for that though)

Jill was his proper family and his maw had prevented them from being together when he passed away which was done out of nowt but spite so yeah so totally did deserve it

I’d have thrown in a slap for good measure meself

[Daniel-X]

So powerful, one of the best dramas I’ve ever seen. Episode 3 and 5 are unbelievably sad, I could not stop crying

Keeley Hawes was sensational in the final episode, I LOATHED Ritchie’s mum but she played her unbelievably.

[Ammi]

...Richie’s mum...

Spoiler:

...Scott she kind of did get that ‘slap’ in that he told her who he was, that there had been 100’s of men...the good, the bad and the ugly/type thing...and his words, something like ...’some of them right bastards but I enjoyed every moment...’...that was her ‘slap’, I felt...he was telling her who he was and even though it had led to him there and losing his life, he would not ever mor could ever change who he was...

....Richie’s mum was a product of her time and she wasn’t really a likeable person because sadly, a product of that time had much bigotry...for me, Keeley Hawes played her in as likeable and sympathetic way as she could, she was superb......young men were dying, they were dying en masse and as was said...if these were heterosexual men...there would be screaming and rioting in every street and what is this goddamn disease...!!!!!!...but that’s not how it was, they were ‘silent deaths’ and ‘hidden deaths’ because of the bigotry of the time ...they were deaths from cancer or pneumonia or something else, anything else, but they weren’t AIDS...because AIDS would only bring judgement...


...Jill’s character was the ‘mother’ who knew him, who knew Richie and not the ideal or idea of Richie that his mother still lived in...to acknowledge and accept who someone is and to love who they are and not who you would like them to be, is the ‘greater love’ /..the more unconditional love, I feel....Jill became what families had rejected and she loved as a parent loves, she became that for many of the characters...but she was prevented from being with Richie, she was kept from him at his time of death and she was told in a very cold way...’oh he died..’ ...and that was that..?...and how she had to tell others who loved him as well, who had known him completely and loved him...even in his death and a mother/son love that she felt...his mother still couldn’t accept him as Richie, but only ‘her Richie’ and she kept him from the people who loved him and who desperately needed to say goodbye to him...just all very sad but yeah, so much of its time...

[Daniel-X]

I haven’t stopped thinking about this since I finished it. Just haunting from start to finish

The poor gays of the 1980s it just makes me feel so lucky to be born in a different time, but so angry too at the hardships they had to face. The scary thing it is it was only relatively recent too