[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ah, so any negative opinion of an abuser is misogynistic trolling because she just so happens to be a woman?

I'm sure unintentional but this sounds so MRA .

In seriousness though (opinion piece coming up), the Depp/Heard situation is clearly extremely complex, evidence of violence all round, mixed up in substance abuse and mental health issues. They both clearly have massive personal issues and their relationship was beyond toxic. I think that part of that for Heard is that the toxic relationship sparked joy for her, she probably associates the aggression, violence and craziness with an "intense" or "passionate" relationship as part of her own personal demons (not uncommon) whereas frankly Depp is getting on a bit and was probably getting very tired of it and wanted it all to stop. That's what I hear in the tapes. It doesn't mean he wasn't an active participant before that point of having had enough. Also, the fact that his previous relationships weren't violent really means zip - they were different relationships.

In short I think they were both violent and Depps probably wasn't "just" retaliatory/in self defense, Heard has done a lot of lying and manipulating on top but it's all wrapped up in the same thing.

Based purely on the tapes that were released you could even say that Heard was the worse of the two, certainly in terms of being emotionally manipulative, but then that assumes they tell the whole story.

But as I said to Truth/Brillo/Whoever that multi is, this "Depp pure and innocent, Heard demon" narrative just isn't the real world, it's film/telly territory and completely unrealistic.

[Ammi]

...it’s been found by the judge that on at least 12 occasions, he did abuse her...So this is obviously a win for Amber and a loss for Johnny but more importantly than that it’s a win for domestic abuse victims and a loss for their abusers...and we’re obviously just about to go into another lockdown situation with households having little outer contact...so not a thriving situation for COVID but most certainly a thriving situation for domestic abuse...it’s so important for this to be the focus, rather than two celebrities who appeared to have possibly had a complicated/toxic relationship...He was found to have abused her on at least 12 occasions and that’s pretty horrendous...

...one of the things that I noticed yesterday in some news channels showing them leaving the court on various occasions...this whole thing, each day in court and with the view of the vein of it all...each day must have been so harrowing, so emotionally exhausting...but there were times when Johnny almost ‘skipped out’ and down the steps and waving and smiling etc to his ‘appreciation crowd’...there seemed much more mixed emotions from Amber, the emotional exhaustion showing more in times of her being somber and tearful etc...that never really quite sat well with me because he would also know that this wasn’t just about them either, it was about domestic abuse victims...and he fully knew that he’d abused her, as the judge has declared that to have been fully proven...so he’s really shown little regard to that and the many female victims in the seriousness of this case...

[bitontheslide]

Depp has never been an actor that i ever liked, he always made my skin crawl for some reason, to the point i couldn't care less what he does in his private life. I just don't want to know about it. As a result, this is a simple case of he lost a court case ... great, now i can continue to ignore him

[Ammi]

....I do actually care a lot about this../...their private life because in terms of domestic abuse there is a bigger picture and many layers and especially if it’s Male on female domestic abuse and it’s a ‘popular Male’...

[Ammi]

...domestic abuse is a huge concern atm in particular because of lockdown times, which are creating a thriving situation...

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Depp has never been an actor that i ever liked, he always made my skin crawl for some reason, to the point i couldn't care less what he does in his private life. I just don't want to know about it. As a result, this is a simple case of he lost a court case ... great, now i can continue to ignore him

has had some iconic roles though

Captain Jack Sparrow

Willy Wonka

Tonto

Edward Scissorhands

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s been found by the judge that on at least 12 occasions, he did abuse her...So this is obviously a win for Amber and a loss for Johnny but more importantly than that it’s a win for domestic abuse victims and a loss for their abusers...

Is it though?
I think it's doing a lot of damage tbh. Outside of the fact it was clearly an abusive relationship on both sides, the result of this libel trial is now starting a narrative in the papers (and on news shows) that the abusive woman remains the victim in this scenario, regardless of her own behaviours. Extremely damaging and playing into stereotypes IMO.

They've both contributed to a toxic relationship, but, as the man, he's the "wife beater" who deserves to be vilified across the newspapers it seems by scum like Dan Wootton, whilst she, as the woman, gets to play act the victim and be the "winner" and anyone who dares point that out is "misogynistic". Nah, doesn't sit right at all.

Those are the outdated attitudes Heard has relied on to push all blame onto Depp and destroy his life and career.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Is it though?
I think it's doing a lot of damage tbh. Outside of the fact it was clearly an abusive relationship on both sides, the result of this libel trial is now starting a narrative in the papers (and on news shows) that the abusive woman remains the victim in this scenario, regardless of her own behaviours. Extremely damaging and playing into stereotypes IMO.

They've both contributed to a toxic relationship, but he's the "wife beater" who deserves to be vilified across the newspapers it seems by scum like Dan Wootton, whilst she gets to play act the victim and be the "winner". Nah, doesn't sit right at all.

...but surely we can only look at what’s been ruled on/found to be true...(...I don’t know all of the details, I will say...I haven’t been a huge follower of the case..)...and that’s that 12 cases of abuse against him have been found to be truth ...I don’t really know beyond that, what the possibility of ‘two contributions’ would have been and what bearing they would have on his abuse...because he has been found to be a ‘wife beater’ as such so she is a victim of that finding...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...but surely we can only look at what’s been ruled on/found to be true...(...I don’t know all of the details, I will say...I haven’t been a huge follower of the case..)...and that’s that 12 cases of abuse against him have been found to be truth ...I don’t really know beyond that, what the possibility of ‘two contributions’ would have been and what bearing they would have on his abuse...because he has been found to be a ‘wife beater’ as such so she is a victim of that finding...

The court case was against the Sun. So I wouldn't consider it any kind of "win" or "confirmation of victimhood" for Heard, neither of which has been "found to be true".

The only thing that's occurred is a scum publication has been given more ammunition to continue publishing half-truths depending on who they are or are not supporting on the whims of the personal preferences of people like Dan Wootton. That's not a good thing and never will be.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

The court case was against the Sun. So I wouldn't consider it any kind of "win" or "confirmation of victimhood" for Heard, neither of which has been "found to be true".

...the courts case, so far as I believe...?...was ‘don’t call me a wife beater...(..I’m not sure that those were the exact words used by the Sun...)..because I’m not a wife beater...but the courts have proved him to be a wife beater../..abuser with at least 12 serious abuses ...so that is really a win for domestic abuse, surely...when a liar guilty of domestic abuse is proven by the courts to be a liar...

[Ammi]

...I don’t understand, Marsh...they’re not half truths..the judge actually used the wording of them being truths...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...the courts case, so far as I believe...?...was ‘don’t call me a wife beater...(..I’m not sure that those were the exact words used by the Sun...)..because I’m not a wife beater...but the courts have proved him to be a wife beater../..abuser with at least 12 serious abuses ...so that is really a win for domestic abuse, surely...when a liar guilty of domestic abuse is proven by the courts to be a liar...

Not when the narrative is being presented as "a win for victim of domestic abuse victim Amber Heard" like you just posted. That's damaging.

If you find a misrepresentation and one-sided view of domestic violence to be in favour of a woman, purely for being a woman, and against the man labelled "wife beater" any kind of "win" for any victim of domestic abuse of either gender then I'm kind of speechless tbh.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I don’t understand, Marsh...they’re not half truths..the judge actually used the wording of them being truths...

It is a half-truth.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Not when the narrative is being presented as "a win for victim of domestic abuse Amber Heard" like you just posted. That's damaging.

If you find a misrepresentation and one-sided view of domestic violence to be in favour of a woman, purely for being a woman, and against the man labelled "wife beater" any kind of "win" for any victim of domestic abuse of either gender then I'm kind of speechless tbh.

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

[Ammi]

...it’s a victory for domestic abuse victims because someone who said ‘no I’m not’ when in fact they are...has been found to have lied by a the court judge...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

But it's right for you to say the media slant and misrepresentation of Heard as a victim is a win for domestic abuse victims? Nope. That's complete and utter bollocks.

It's really not any different to the story they ran on JK Rowling's husband, giving him the platform to defend his actions and blame the other person.

If this was the other way around, NO WAY would Depp be being portrayed as the victim and a "win for victims".

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it isn’t because she’s a woman, though...it’s because nothing is proven against her, she wasn’t the one that took out the court action...and the judge heard all evidence of any ‘actions’ with her as well, and has still ruled that Johnny is an abuser...I can’t say beyond that, what hasn’t been in any way proven regarding Amber because that wouldn’t be right...

his only mistake he ever made was getting together with this insane attention seeker of a woman what she is

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But it's right for you to say the media slant and misrepresentation of Heard as a victim is a win for domestic abuse victims? Nope. That's complete and utter bollocks.

It's really not any different to the story they ran on JK Rowling's husband, giving him the platform to defend his actions and blame the other person.

If this was the other way around, NO WAY would Depp be being portrayed as the victim and a "win for victims".

...one of the fundamentals we appear not to be in the same ground on...is that you feel it’s been a media slant and misinterpretation of Amber Heard being a victim of domestic abuse...and I don’t think see that slant and misinterpretation, she has been a victim of domestic abuse and that’s been proven by the court...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

his only mistake he ever made was getting together with this insane attention seeker of a woman what she is

...his ‘only mistake’ Nicky...was abusing her at least 12 times in their time together...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...one of the fundamentals we appear not to be in the same ground on...is that you feel it’s been a media slant and misinterpretation of Amber Heard being a victim of domestic abuse...and I don’t think see that slant and misinterpretation, she has been a victim of domestic abuse and that’s been proven by the court...

You don't see the slant and misrepresentation in a toxic relationship full of drink, drugs and physical violence being reported as "man abuses wife" as unfair, unbalanced and damaging?

You take the trial (which wasn't about Heard) but entirely focussed on one side of the story in order to give a scum tabloid more ammunition to post only their own versions of the truth as a positive?

The conversation stops here then. Heard does not represent victims, anymore than Depp does.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s a victory for domestic abuse victims because someone who said ‘no I’m not’ when in fact they are...has been found to have lied by a the court judge...

And She
Assaulted him

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s been found by the judge that on at least 12 occasions, he did abuse her...So this is obviously a win for Amber and a loss for Johnny but more importantly than that it’s a win for domestic abuse victims and a loss for their abusers...and we’re obviously just about to go into another lockdown situation with households having little outer contact...so not a thriving situation for COVID but most certainly a thriving situation for domestic abuse...it’s so important for this to be the focus, rather than two celebrities who appeared to have possibly had a complicated/toxic relationship...He was found to have abused her on at least 12 occasions and that’s pretty horrendous...

...one of the things that I noticed yesterday in some news channels showing them leaving the court on various occasions...this whole thing, each day in court and with the view of the vein of it all...each day must have been so harrowing, so emotionally exhausting...but there were times when Johnny almost ‘skipped out’ and down the steps and waving and smiling etc to his ‘appreciation crowd’...there seemed much more mixed emotions from Amber, the emotional exhaustion showing more in times of her being somber and tearful etc...that never really quite sat well with me because he would also know that this wasn’t just about them either, it was about domestic abuse victims...and he fully knew that he’d abused her, as the judge has declared that to have been fully proven...so he’s really shown little regard to that and the many female victims in the seriousness of this case...

Yeah. You also get the impression that people just want to believe Johnny is completely innocent because he's a well loved good looking actor, it feels to me that people in general (not always just men either) are more comfortable with the woman being the bad one and the liar. Initially, people believed Amber because of some recordings but when some others came out to show her acting abusive it was like people were so relieved they could now act like Johnny was the poor manipulated good guy when that really does not seem to be the case at all, it looks very much like both of them acted abusive and aggressive.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Yeah. You also get the impression that people just want to believe Johnny is completely innocent because he's a well loved good looking actor, it feels to me that people in general (not always just men either) are more comfortable with the woman being the bad one and the liar. Initially, people believed Amber because of some recordings but when some others came out to show her acting abusive it was like people were so relieved they could now act like Johnny was the poor manipulated good guy when that really does not seem to be the case at all, it looks very much like both of them acted abusive and aggressive.

BIB - I feel the media and social media is far more comfortable with the "wife beater" mentality, as evidenced by the response to the trial.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

BIB - I feel the media and social media is far more comfortable with the "wife beater" mentality, as evidenced by the response to the trial.

I don't know Marsh, I've seen a lot more people backing Johnny on here and on social media

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I don't know Marsh, I've seen a lot more people backing Johnny on here and on social media

I see that more as backing him within his legal battle against The Sun, for which he had my full support.

This "win for Amber" twisting of the whole thing does not sit right at all for me. If the court case did anything, it was highlight the toxicity of the relationship on both sides. The slanting of it to now be that the "victim" has had her justification is repulsive to me and damaging for male victims of domestic abuse. How on earth can they feel comfortable coming forward as it is, and now they have to contend with a famous female abuser being presented as the victim? Stop the world I want to get off.