[Ammi]

Originally Posted by arista

His Mother does not have all the information.

Many In the EU are scared of these Vaccines.


I have relatives in France
they are getting wrong data.

...I have relatives in France as well and they appear to have much the same general ‘data’ as we do in the U.K., Arista...but none of us have all of the information and data that governments do, I would think...what is ‘typical’ and common is that Nicky does sometimes need guidance in his thought processes as well, that doesn’t apply so much to others and a parent would be an obvious trust person for that guidance...you don’t have all of the information and neither do I and ‘being scared’ either of the virus or the vaccine isn’t typical or exclusive to those living in Europe...I’m sure that there are many vaccine uncertain and wary people here in the U.K. as well...

[Nicky91]

it is just everyone reacts differently to vaccines


my mom is very much pro-corona measures, everytime wearing her mask (FFP2 sort only) when grocery shopping, that is the only place we go now too


and i don't go anywhere literally, and whenever i go on holiday in own country, i will of course wear a face mask, and we also clean the bungalow ourselves (we have been doing for well all the time we go on holiday here, but now even extra cleaning just to be thorough)

[Cherie]

An Israeli study of 523,000 people who received both doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine has found there have been zero subsequent deaths, according to a report.

The study by Maccabi Healthcare Services, cited in The Times of Israel, also found only 544 vaccinated people went on to catch the virus, with just four severe cases.

The paper marked the news with a headline reading: “It works.”

And Dr Miri Mizrahi Reuveni was quoted as saying: “This data unequivocally proves that the vaccine is very effective and we have no doubt that it has saved the lives of many Israelis.”

they have also vaccinated 47% of their population

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ated-1.9527583

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

An Israeli study of 523,000 people who received both doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine has found there have been zero subsequent deaths, according to a report.

The study by Maccabi Healthcare Services, cited in The Times of Israel, also found only 544 vaccinated people went on to catch the virus, with just four severe cases.

The paper marked the news with a headline reading: “It works.”

And Dr Miri Mizrahi Reuveni was quoted as saying: “This data unequivocally proves that the vaccine is very effective and we have no doubt that it has saved the lives of many Israelis.”

they have also vaccinated 47% of their population

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ated-1.9527583

only 544 of vaccinated went on to catch the virus, just 4 severe cases

well wouldn't want to be one of those then

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

only 544 of vaccinated went on to catch the virus, just 4 severe cases

well wouldn't want to be one of those then

544 out of 3.5 million....so you would rather be one of the 3.5 million?

if so get vaccinated!

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

544 out of 3.5 million....so you would rather be one of the 3.5 million?

failing to get my point i guess

good on the majority who the vaccine has been effective on


but there is always a chance you are among the minority with either very nasty side effects, or getting the virus again and worse


Pfizer has 95% effectiveness, still if ur among 5% and there is a chance not huge but always a chance of that

and AZ/Oxford only got 55% effectiveness, so even more chance you are among those where it is not effective on

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

failing to get my point i guess

good on the majority who the vaccine has been effective on


but there is always a chance you are among the minority with either very nasty side effects, or getting the virus again and worse

...Nicky you do realise they didn't get the virus BECAUSE they got the vaccine, right? They would have got the virus either way... whether they got the vaccine or not. There's also no way to know how many more of those 544 people would have had severe symptoms if they hadn't got the vaccine, or how many would have died.

I've yet to see ANY reputable source showing severe (as in, life ending or altering) side effects so when you talk about "nasty side effects" do you just mean getting a bit ill for a couple of days? Because that's not unusual with vaccines and, frankly, "I don't want to feel unwell for a short time" isn't a very good reason to not get it. If you were saying that you've heard that people have had severe, life-threatening responses then that would be another matter.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

An Israeli study of 523,000 people who received both doses of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine has found there have been zero subsequent deaths, according to a report.

The study by Maccabi Healthcare Services, cited in The Times of Israel, also found only 544 vaccinated people went on to catch the virus, with just four severe cases.

The paper marked the news with a headline reading: “It works.”

And Dr Miri Mizrahi Reuveni was quoted as saying: “This data unequivocally proves that the vaccine is very effective and we have no doubt that it has saved the lives of many Israelis.”

they have also vaccinated 47% of their population

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ated-1.9527583

Staying on the Israel Covid situation

They have been trialling a drug TREATMENT that is giving AMAZING results

Medics in Israel have been given the go-ahead for a third trial of a relatively new drug after successfully testing the treatment on a number of severely ill Covid-19 patients, of which 90 per cent fully recovered within a week, according to multiple media reports.

The drug, Allocetra, aims to slow or halt an extreme overreaction of the immune system, a so-called cytokine storm. It often follows a coronavirus infection and is believed to be responsible for many Covid-related deaths as it regularly leads to organ failure.


https://youtu.be/o_8x2VOV3hA






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[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

...Nicky you do realise they didn't get the virus BECAUSE they got the vaccine, right? They would have got the virus either way... whether they got the vaccine or not. There's also no way to know how many more of those 544 people would have had severe symptoms if they hadn't got the vaccine, or how many would have died.

I've yet to see ANY reputable source showing severe (as in, life ending or altering) side effects so when you talk about "nasty side effects" do you just mean getting a bit ill for a couple of days? Because that's not unusual with vaccines and, frankly, "I don't want to feel unwell for a short time" isn't a very good reason to not get it. If you were saying that you've heard that people have had severe, life-threatening responses then that would be another matter.

no

but not everyone reacts well to vaccines, and i did read something about quite some people having died after they got the vaccine

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

no

but not everyone reacts well to vaccines, and i did read something about quite some people having died after they got the vaccine

I expect they were elderly and might have died either way?

do you have some ages and numbers to compare

as just reading some people died is not good enough

some people die in car crashs every day, I expect you get in a car now and again?

also you will have had plenty vaccinations in your life, if you have survived them all the likelihood is you will survive this one!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Staying on the Israel Covid situation

They have been trialling a drug TREATMENT that is giving AMAZING results

Medics in Israel have been given the go-ahead for a third trial of a relatively new drug after successfully testing the treatment on a number of severely ill Covid-19 patients, of which 90 per cent fully recovered within a week, according to multiple media reports.

The drug, Allocetra, aims to slow or halt an extreme overreaction of the immune system, a so-called cytokine storm. It often follows a coronavirus infection and is believed to be responsible for many Covid-related deaths as it regularly leads to organ failure.


https://youtu.be/o_8x2VOV3hA






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

great news!

[Lewismacfarlane]

I'm going in 2 weeks for my vaccine I actually can't believe it

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I expect they were elderly and might have died either way?

do you have some ages and numbers to compare

as just reading some people died is not good enough

some people die in car crashs every day, I expect you get in a car now and again?

also you will have had plenty vaccinations in your life, if you have survived them all the likelihood is you will survive this one!

umm you don't know they were all elderly?



and no i haven't had plenty vaccinations in my life

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

umm you don't know they were all elderly?



and no i haven't had plenty vaccinations in my life

That is correct, which is why I asked you to provide some facts and figures

you are saying people died, we need links and evidence

You have had all your childhood vaccinations? that is at least 5!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

great news!

If they really have developed a drug therapy that combats cytokine storm, and it really is as effective as this (90%+) then this is an absolutely massive medical breakthrough far beyond the scope of just Covid. Cytokine storm is the eventual cause of death in MANY illnesses.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

That is correct, which is why I asked you to provide some facts and figures

you are saying people died, we need links and evidence

You have had all your childhood vaccinations? that is at least 5!

well funnily enough i can't find facts and figures, only reason i know this is bc i heard it from my mom


and yes true i had vaccinations in my childhood but no reason why i should vaccinate since i never go anywhere normally, and holidays i only go in own country anyway

[Nicky91]

ok mostly elderly are among those deaths yes


one doctor Bart van Tienen, he said we started to vaccinate the elderly too soon, without proper testing and not enough waiting how the test subjects reacted to the vaccine many days after

but yes most of those deaths are among 80, 90+ group, one lady who fell and she had morphine, one day later she had the Moderna vaccine, she had fever, tiredness afterwards and soon after died, they rule those as ''natural causes'' deaths due to the fever, but idk i think it could've been prevented if there was better and longer testing of the vaccines

[bitontheslide]

Not wishing to put a dampener on this new Israel treatment, but they are not noted for accurate drug trials. It would need to go through the standard trial process in individual countries and see if the data is the same. We have heard stories about miracle cures before

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Not wishing to put a dampener on this new Israel treatment, but they are not noted for accurate drug trials. It would need to go through the standard trial process in individual countries and see if the data is the same. We have heard stories about miracle cures before

Is this an actual thing? Like... is Israel actually known for their poor quality drug trials?

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Is this an actual thing? Like... is Israel actually known for their poor quality drug trials?

there are a very small % of countries that do it properly. It's easy for data to become contaminated unless the test conditions are perfect. That aside, the results from one country are never taken as gospel. I'm sure it will be looked at with enthusiasm by the medical community, but we are a long way off confirming those reported results

[Vicky.]

The 'loads have died after being given the vaccine' is surely easily explained by...we started with the oldest most vulnerable people?

I thought this back when it was 'omg loads of 90+ year olds have died after catching covid!' tbh. The shock some seemed to have when it blazed through carehomes resulting in fatalities was..odd. Noro does the same?!

When you are dealing with people that old and fragile, even a cold can 'kill them off' so to speak. So yeah, the side effects might kill some, its unfortunate but expected. Meanwhle, they are much more likely to be finished off if they actually caught covid.

I mean, I think it was a bit of a waste, in all honesty, to vaccinate the very very vulnerable. For the simple fact that..even a 'covid light' version would likely still kill them. As a cold could! But..here we are. So yeah, vaccinating people like that will result in a quite high looking death rate (among that age group)

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The 'loads have died after being given the vaccine' is surely easily explained by...we started with the oldest most vulnerable people?

I thought this back when it was 'omg loads of 90+ year olds have died after catching covid!' tbh. The shock some seemed to have when it blazed through carehomes resulting in fatalities was..odd. Noro does the same?!

When you are dealing with people that old and fragile, even a cold can 'kill them off' so to speak. So yeah, the side effects might kill some, its unfortunate but expected. Meanwhle, they are much more likely to be finished off if they actually caught covid.

I mean, I think it was a bit of a waste, in all honesty, to vaccinate the very very vulnerable. For the simple fact that..even a 'covid light' version would likely still kill them. As a cold could! But..here we are. So yeah, vaccinating people like that will result in a quite high looking death rate (among that age group)

That’s an interesting take on things Vicky ... oddly I also wondered if we should have started with the 35yr olds and worked upwards ( I’m over 60 )

After all they are the future ( the younger ones aren’t badly effected- generally speaking)


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[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Zizu

That’s an interesting take on things Vicky ... oddly I also wondered if we should have started with the 35yr olds and worked upwards ( I’m over 60 )

After all they are the future ( the younger ones aren’t badly effected- generally speaking)


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I thought the working populous was a better place to start too as then the economy would have restarted quicker but then we were leaving the old and vulnerable locked down, often alone for longer. Most younger age people did at least have some limited freedom last summer.

Plus the main worry has always been the NHS and so to relieve the strain they needed to vaccinate the groups who are most likely to end up hospitalised.

[Vicky.]

I think starting with older high risk people was the best way, along with teachers, care home staff, etc. However, vaccinating 80+ ill people? Seems..pointless. I know that sounds harsh, but..its how I honestly feel.

We would be onto a significant portion of the working community now, if we had...say..started the vaccinations at 70 or something like that, instead of much higher.

People who are older, could have the option...after the working population was done?
IDK as thats leaving carehomes 'to the wolves' but honestly..I do think the vaccinations side effects may potentially kill off as many as a potential covid spread in that carehome would anyway :S

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Plus the main worry has always been the NHS and so to relieve the strain they needed to vaccinate the groups who are most likely to end up hospitalised.

Yes.

At a certain point though, as I said, surely 'covid lite' is just as dangerous as covid. These are people who can be killed easily with a bit of a bad stomach..

I get why they were done, as the government would look cold as **** to do it my way. And it doesnt sit right to just 'leave them as they might die either way' but..in terms of actually sorting the economy and stuff...and also thinking about how many are getting flu symptoms from the vaccine...seems...almost counterproductive to induce flu symptoms in the very old/vulnerable?! Those symptoms alone could easily kill/hospitalise that group..then we are back to square one/.