[Cherie]

I haven't had the opportunity to read war and peace yet, but I will

The situation with the vaccines in the EU needs addressing swiftly though, it was only three weeks ago Bojo was being urged to stop vaccinating once the over 50s were complete and hand over surplus to poorer countries

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I haven't had the opportunity to read war and peace yet, but I will

The situation with the vaccines in the EU needs addressing swiftly though, it was only three weeks ago Bojo was being urged to stop vaccinating once the over 50s were complete and hand over surplus to poorer countries

Some of them don't want the vaccine.
I think they should donate it to those countries who can't afford it.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Some of them don't want the vaccine.
I think they should donate it to those countries who can't afford it.

yeah I mean I get it given what has been said by Macron etc, though he seems at odds with the EMA over that, but they need to ship them on, it's unlikely the public will change their mind I think

[bitontheslide]

there is a huge logistical challenge getting pizer and moderna vaccines to remote locations with the temperature requirements. Astra Zenica is already manufacturing the oxford vaccine world wide so, the whole thing will look completely different come the summer when production is scaled up properly

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The absolute worst of the media in terms of the pandemic has been flipping from "Reeeee the virus! Stupid government saying go out when people are getting sick!" straight to "Reeeee the lockdown! Stupid government telling us to stay home when mental health is suffering" as soon as one or the other is in effect.

I'm no fan of the govt response in general and it's a nuanced topic and a balancing act between physical and mental health effects, yes, but where is that nuanced discussion in the press? They just flop from one extreme to the other... It's almost like gaslighting.

Almost?! Its the very definition of gaslighting really to me. They have behaved atrociously. I mean, anger and fear sells papers so I 'get it' but there has not been an ounce of..well sense in all of the bloody wailing about the end being nigh if things close. Then claiming the end was not nigh, but it is if we lockdown. Then going on about some mutant strain thats s serious and deadly and new, yet the tracking sites had it....7 months back? Bugger off! Just a bit of balance was sorely needed, from even one of the major publications, but nope.

I have a friend who is about as low risk as they come, and is totally convinced she will drop dead from stepping out of her door. Shes had all her 'news' from the mainstream press..mainly bbc news apparently, and daily star/mirror (have told her thats not a good...spread before. She seems to think thats a right wing and a left wing source and will not be told otherwise ) She showed no signs of mental issues before this, like, ever. I know it can seem to come from nowhere...but I really do think her current anxiety disorder is 100% caused by believing scaremongering nonsense basically. Like, to show how odd this is...shes 21, very social media obsessed...she cut off her internet like 5 months back as she read that people were trying to pretend covid was not dangerous online?! Thats just bizarre behaviour to me. Even if some were saying that, cutting off your net about it is..not rational at all in response surely?! Am genuinely so so worried about her, and last I heard, her mam tried to go round to check and was basically refused in, and refused being spoken to as shes been written off as a 'covid denier'...because...she has not turned total hermit for an illness with a low mortality rate, and also while she actively is still working anyway! The daughters 'logic' right now is her mum is in massive danger and is making it worse, by conitnuing going to work, instead of quitting her job to hide. Its like..some alternate reality is going on with some people, it really is. Such whims are not possible for most adults. And I am really starting t think its not the doctors she needs, its sectioned for a bit. Might sound harsh, but I really think shes a risk to herself, not others but herself with HOW panicky shes getting over such tiny things that are almost insignificant to many?!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i do agree with Vicky. Misinformation ferments distrust. and we have had misinformation from scientists, the government and the media. The media have an awful lot to answer for and when the inquiry finally happens, i hope their role in it all is highlighted too. I have always had a certain contempt for the media, but they have been several levels worse during this pandemic

So much rationale from those who seem to believe the (obvious nonsense really) conspiracy theories about it all being fake and that...I really can see how they got to the point of not trusting anything they read/heard. There has been a steady stream of misinformation for like a year now, just tapping away. Its easy to see why people turn to 'alternate sources' really.

Other conspiracy theories often shoved into the same bracket, STILL include anyone saying they think theres even a tiny possibility, that it could have been a lab leak. I guess thats maybe 'the opposite end' of the problem in a way, as..not sure if its me spending too long online thinking but..that one genuinely seems so plausible to me. Infact, it seems more likely that other explanations I have heard, about cross species, perfect storm, etc. I think being labelled a 'covid denier' forviews such as the above is kind of counterprductive? Hell, I was called a denier for questioning if it was time to end lockdown. Thats not a bloody denier to me?! Militant, battlegrunds drawn stuff like that just pushes people further to the extremes really. Accuse people of being a denier, chances are they might look up the arguments, and honestly, a few I have seen are semi believable if you were already kind of in the mindset for a huge scandal, if that makes sense. A lot of conformation bias searching would probably happen. But..its easy to see why the extreme factions appear to be growing really :S

My dad said a while back, it will be 50 years before 'the truth' is all there really. So it seems, I shall pass on the baton to Skye/James, as I plan to be LONG gone by then thanks!

[Zizu]

I must say all this news of the Brazilian variant being ‘somewhere’ in the uk very unsettling ... it apparently spreads like wildfire and there’s thousands of people in Brazil who got the Brazilian one AFTER they’d already suffered with the original Covid months previously .

That basically suggests that everyone can potentially get the Brazilian one now ( apart from MAYBE the folk who’ve had a vaccine-as they’re HOPING the vaccines will give some protection)




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[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I must say all this news of the Brazilian variant being ‘somewhere’ in the uk very unsettling ... it apparently spreads like wildfire and there’s thousands of people in Brazil who got the Brazilian one AFTER they’d already suffered with the original Covid months previously .

That basically suggests that everyone can potentially get the Brazilian one now ( apart from MAYBE the folk who’ve had a vaccine-as they’re HOPING the vaccines will give some protection)




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so was news of the SA variant tbf and that has died off now

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I must say all this news of the Brazilian variant being ‘somewhere’ in the uk very unsettling ... it apparently spreads like wildfire and there’s thousands of people in Brazil who got the Brazilian one AFTER they’d already suffered with the original Covid months previously .

That basically suggests that everyone can potentially get the Brazilian one now ( apart from MAYBE the folk who’ve had a vaccine-as they’re HOPING the vaccines will give some protection)

This is going to sound a bit odd, but news of more contagious strains actually makes me a bit hopeful. Viruses tend to mutate to be more spreadable but less dangerous, apparently this is basically down to their sole purpose in life is to spread to as many hosts as possible. Assuming covid behaves as other viruses do..that would kind of be a great thing. I was challenged on this, IIRC last time I said it and told it takes hundreds of years for this to happen or something, but..that stuck in my head and I asked a qualified mate (who told me all the mutation crap in the first place, while I sat fascinated for hours) who reckons these changes CAN be quite quick. Says it wont 'turn into something like seasonal flu' as such quickly, but its entirely normal for viruses to mutate quickly to be easily spread but less dangerous. Reckons if a strain takes prominence, and is more contagious but safer, its better all round, and on balance that sounds about right really. (Also does not believe Boris claiming the xmas strain was 20% more deadly aswell as more easily spread, and thinks that was boris covering his own arse for his ****show of rules changing and free for all on xmas day, again, seems plausible really )

I really do feel, and will stay this way until they tell me otherwise, that this 'new mutation' stuff is..scaremongering. It was VERY noticeable to me, the way mutations were barely even mentioned until the vaccine was done. Then suddenly, mutations everywhere, omg they might make the vaccine pointless! When, mutations have been all over from the start realistically. I might be wrong, but it really does come across as a kind of..project fear thing (haha, I didnt believe that was a thing, when it was around..I get it now!), a backup plan even, for if they do feel the need to put lockdown back/halt opening.

I think part of my mistrust comes from months of actual clear and obvious scaremongering though. Even 'the scientists' have done it, though obviously not as often as the media, or the government. I especially hate the 'new way' of floating controversial ideas in the press then deciding on them based on reaction. Like, thats a horrific way to run a country. They might nt be doing that, being very generous, but it really really looks like they are and its happened too many times for me to write off as coincidence now

You really would think there would be at least some..not conclusive..but some data on if the vaccines reduce transmission though. A few of the 'mutations' have been claimed to be possibly resistant...weeks back some, yet still nothing? Even basically very rough data, is better than this bloody limbo situation. Vaccines have been going for months. I assume, they found it reduces transmission to some degree, but they don't know how much. Even saying just that, is better than the silence. IF it doesnt reduce transmission (I remain cautiously optomistic on that one really...not sure) they also need to be bloody honest and just say it doesn't look hopeful.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

so was news of the SA variant tbf and that has died off now

I don’t recall any suggestions that the SA variant was effecting thousands of people who’d already had the original Covid ...


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[Toy Soldier]

Current daily infections graphs suggest that there's a very strong probability that vaccination is driving down infection rates but it's too early to say that conclusively, since it's not really possible to identify exactly who someone has caught a virus from (so you can't say for sure, "oh he got it from Bob but Bob is vaccinated").

They'd have to do broad-scale follow up random testing on asymptomatic vaccinated people, to see if any actually have undetected Covid, and then test to see if those people have a high enough viral load to actually be contagious (since its not as simple as saying "if you have it you can spread it" either)

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

I don’t recall any suggestions that the SA variant was effecting thousands of people who’d already had the original Covid ...


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Tbh I have stopped following it all closely so I don’t know, is this in Brazil?

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

This is going to sound a bit odd, but news of more contagious strains actually makes me a bit hopeful. Viruses tend to mutate to be more spreadable but less dangerous, apparently this is basically down to their sole purpose in life is to spread to as many hosts as possible. Assuming covid behaves as other viruses do..that would kind of be a great thing. I was challenged on this, IIRC last time I said it and told it takes hundreds of years for this to happen or something, but..that stuck in my head and I asked a qualified mate (who told me all the mutation crap in the first place, while I sat fascinated for hours) who reckons these changes CAN be quite quick. Says it wont 'turn into something like seasonal flu' as such quickly, but its entirely normal for viruses to mutate quickly to be easily spread but less dangerous. Reckons if a strain takes prominence, and is more contagious but safer, its better all round, and on balance that sounds about right really. (Also does not believe Boris claiming the xmas strain was 20% more deadly aswell as more easily spread, and thinks that was boris covering his own arse for his ****show of rules changing and free for all on xmas day, again, seems plausible really )

I really do feel, and will stay this way until they tell me otherwise, that this 'new mutation' stuff is..scaremongering. It was VERY noticeable to me, the way mutations were barely even mentioned until the vaccine was done. Then suddenly, mutations everywhere, omg they might make the vaccine pointless! When, mutations have been all over from the start realistically. I might be wrong, but it really does come across as a kind of..project fear thing (haha, I didnt believe that was a thing, when it was around..I get it now!), a backup plan even, for if they do feel the need to put lockdown back/halt opening.

I think part of my mistrust comes from months of actual clear and obvious scaremongering though. Even 'the scientists' have done it, though obviously not as often as the media, or the government. I especially hate the 'new way' of floating controversial ideas in the press then deciding on them based on reaction. Like, thats a horrific way to run a country. They might nt be doing that, being very generous, but it really really looks like they are and its happened too many times for me to write off as coincidence now

You really would think there would be at least some..not conclusive..but some data on if the vaccines reduce transmission though. A few of the 'mutations' have been claimed to be possibly resistant...weeks back some, yet still nothing? Even basically very rough data, is better than this bloody limbo situation. Vaccines have been going for months. I assume, they found it reduces transmission to some degree, but they don't know how much. Even saying just that, is better than the silence. IF it doesnt reduce transmission (I remain cautiously optomistic on that one really...not sure) they also need to be bloody honest and just say it doesn't look hopeful.

I can understand where you’re coming from and hopefully you’re correct about it being possibly less dangerous whilst being maybe more contagious.


Sadly I was listening to the radio at the time and they reported that Public Health England where supposedly very concerned and suggested it could easily effect the ‘road map’ plans ...

Then Sky News was live at a major vaccine centre where they were reporting that the centre was only working at 20% due to a shortage of the vaccines... then added that next week the original people would be turning up to have their second dose .

I just worry


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Tbh I have stopped following it all closely so I don’t know, is this in Brazil?

Sorry yes ... as reported by Sky this morning


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[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Current daily infections graphs suggest that there's a very strong probability that vaccination is driving down infection rates but it's too early to say that conclusively, since it's not really possible to identify exactly who someone has caught a virus from (so you can't say for sure, "oh he got it from Bob but Bob is vaccinated").

They'd have to do broad-scale follow up random testing on asymptomatic vaccinated people, to see if any actually have undetected Covid, and then test to see if those people have a high enough viral load to actually be contagious (since its not as simple as saying "if you have it you can spread it" either)

Well tbh it seemed to make sense it would affect transmission to some degree. Especially if it lowers severe risk by lowering viral load in some way? Kind of assumed it worked that way given the emphasis on viral loads throughout all this. Seems pretty unanimous that viral load influences how ill you are..

Your post makes it seem very much like more data is out too on the asymptomatic spreader thing? Like, I genuinely hope so as the way teachers are being treat is nothing short of criminal, BUT if the data basically says people who dont get symptoms are not (generally, I know they cannot say for sure) dangerous, then the decision to brand schools as 'safe' again makes a little sense at least.

Originally Posted by Zizu

I can understand where you’re coming from and hopefully you’re correct about it being possibly less dangerous whilst being maybe more contagious.


Sadly I was listening to the radio at the time and they reported that Public Health England where supposedly very concerned and suggested it could easily effect the ‘road map’ plans ...

Then Sky News was live at a major vaccine centre where they were reporting that the centre was only working at 20% due to a shortage of the vaccines... then added that next week the original people would be turning up to have their second dose .

I just worry


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My cousins wife just got her vaccine cancelled due to 'lack of appointments'. A few in the area are, but that reason is kind of nonsense to me, as they HAD appointments that were then cancelled? If there were no appintments, they wouldn't have got one? A vaccine shortage makes more sense really..and would also make sense why its hushed up if its that so as not to panic the masses, so even if thats rumour, thanks, settled something in my head at least!

[Vicky.]

http://medanthroquarterly.org/2020/0...t-of-covid-19/

Oh, found the link about the Sars V flu spread thing. Source may be dodgy. Unknown. Checked a few of the studies though when they were mentioned and seems quite sound. Did not check all though. But yeah, this kind of explained a lot of questions for me. Might not be right. But, makes sense!

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Well tbh it seemed to make sense it would affect transmission to some degree. Especially if it lowers severe risk by lowering viral load in some way? Kind of assumed it worked that way given the emphasis on viral loads throughout all this. Seems pretty unanimous that viral load influences how ill you are..

Your post makes it seem very much like more data is out too on the asymptomatic spreader thing? Like, I genuinely hope so as the way teachers are being treat is nothing short of criminal, BUT if the data basically says people who dont get symptoms are not (generally, I know they cannot say for sure) dangerous, then the decision to brand schools as 'safe' again makes a little sense at least.


My cousins wife just got her vaccine cancelled due to 'lack of appointments'. A few in the area are, but that reason is kind of nonsense to me, as they HAD appointments that were then cancelled? If there were no appintments, they wouldn't have got one? A vaccine shortage makes more sense really..and would also make sense why its hushed up if its that so as not to panic the masses, so even if thats rumour, thanks, settled something in my head at least!

Being asymptomatic would automatically reduce spread anyway as while you CAN get it from surface contact etc. and it is partially just "in breath", the #1 biggest "spreading risk" is when a contagious person coughs or sneezes and generates droplets. A contagious asymptomatic person won't be coughing or sneezing (as then they wouldn't be asymptomatic...) and so it's far less likely to catch anything from them "in passing". They'd still be a large infection risk for people in long term contact though (people they live with).

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Being asymptomatic would automatically reduce spread anyway as while you CAN get it from surface contact etc. and it is partially just "in breath", the #1 biggest "spreading risk" is when a contagious person coughs or sneezes and generates droplets. A contagious asymptomatic person won't be coughing or sneezing (as then they wouldn't be asymptomatic...) and so it's far less likely to catch anything from them "in passing". They'd still be a large infection risk for people in long term contact though (people they live with).

Interesting .. . Thank you


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[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Being asymptomatic would automatically reduce spread anyway as while you CAN get it from surface contact etc. and it is partially just "in breath", the #1 biggest "spreading risk" is when a contagious person coughs or sneezes and generates droplets. A contagious asymptomatic person won't be coughing or sneezing (as then they wouldn't be asymptomatic...) and so it's far less likely to catch anything from them "in passing". They'd still be a large infection risk for people in long term contact though (people they live with).

Well yeah I logic-ed my way into that early on but didn't realise that there was 'proof' now, unless you are basically saying as its common sense? (which makes the entire question look silly really..as why need proof for something so obvious ffs)

Everyone pretended they had no idea what I meant when I tried to bloody explain my thoughts too. Bastards.

[Cherie]

Vaccinations levels could double towards the end of March as more vaccine comes on stream

BBC

[Cherie]

Hospital admissions in the over 80s have gone down by 80% after one shot of Pfizer or AZ.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Vaccinations levels could double towards the end of March as more vaccine comes on stream

BBC

BBC London Local News reported
there is still a high number
from BAME community
not going
to their vaccine appointments

[LeatherTrumpet]

hopefully, we will see this again soon

Youtube video

[arista]

[arista]