[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Perfectly normal and definitely not a sign of creeping fascism.

There were a few more posts regarding this tweet. I wonder where they've gone?

This is Boris' Britain. This tweet doesnt surprise me at all.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Perfectly normal and definitely not a sign of creeping fascism.

…that ‘creeping’ has surely been some thing that has been ongoing for quite a while…with the policing bill it’s a similar thing with the rights to peaceful protest being restricted and some people are quite anti protest, so the ‘creeping’ is very staged and designed to start its steps with things that will raise less reaction and more compliance, type thing …I mean peaceful protest is a pain anyway, right…?..but that kind of diverts from the control that is being exercised and the freedoms that are being curbed…we can’t pick and choose those freedoms that we’re ok with being restricted because that control isn’t ours…


…meanwhile, we’re all diverted with U turns and Z turns and whatever screens they’ve put in front of us….which is all part of the game…

[Ammi]

…I sound so conspiracy……’Boris’ Britain’….I like that, GiRTh….I mean I don’t like it……not one bit but it is quite apt….

[The Slim Reaper]

[Ammi]

….it’s been so easy to ‘creep past’ us with certain changes when we’ve all been distracted with COVID….

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Ammi

….it’s been so easy to ‘creep past’ us with certain changes when we’ve all been distracted with COVID….

It's far simpler than that - most wouldn't care even if covid hadn't happened.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It's far simpler than that - most wouldn't care even if covid hadn't happened.

…it’s interesting how it can come to this with a free and Democratic society and their leadership …is it that there is ‘no alternative’ as someone said to me recently, as in we can’t imagine Labour votes ever gaining the leadership…and there is no ‘middle grounds and more central’ party anymore as we once had with the Liberals….it’s quite an interesting…(…and not in any good way..)….psychology, I’m going to find some articles to read up on…

[Ammi]

…but these must be times..(…the pandemic…)…that a hugely explored in politics to hide many things behind their distraction….while a nation’s eyes are anxiously diverted….?…

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…it’s interesting how it can come to this with a free and Democratic society and their leadership …is it that there is ‘no alternative’ as someone said to me recently, as in we can’t imagine Labour votes ever gaining the leadership…and there is no ‘middle grounds and more central’ party anymore as we once had with the Liberals….it’s quite an interesting…(…and not in any good way..)….psychology, I’m going to find some articles to read up on…

Moral centre is a bit of a misnomer. There was a candidate at the last election offering to invest in communities and the NHS, to make sure that children wouldn't go hungry, and was called a communist by the BBC (the lefty channel - yeah right) for offering free broadband just before pandemic hit making broadband an essential.

Until the media is tackled in this country then the only way labour will get in will be when eventually even the media have enough of the tories and can't ignore the scandals. It will be a Murdoch backed tory-lite labour leader offering nothing that will get in, so Starmer is actually the right candidate for the tories to put in, just at the wrong time.

[arista]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Yes Slim
he is now long gone
dirty devil

[Tireur]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Stop voting tory then

Just out of curiosity, if the Conservatives are so bad, why do they keep winning elections?
FYI, I’ve never set out to try to elect a Tory candidate, my wife and I have always voted for whoever might prevent the Labour candidate winning.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Tireur

Just out of curiosity, if the Conservatives are so bad, why do they keep winning elections?

I could write a several thousand word essay on this but you know at the end of the day it just boils down to a couple of simple things so I'm just going to say it as that;

The "average member of the general public" is thick as **** and easily hoodwinked. And secondly, there is currently no viable alternative.

[Tireur]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I could write a several thousand word essay on this but you know at the end of the day it just boils down to a couple of simple things so I'm just going to say it as that;

The "average member of the general public" is thick as **** and easily hoodwinked. And secondly, there is currently no viable alternative.

Okay, I’ll bow to your superior knowledge of the intelligence of the U.K. electorate, but would it then follow that they weren’t so easily ‘hoodwinked’ by Labour in the run up to the elections of 2010, 2015, and 2017, prior to Bojo winning in 2019?
Or was there no viable alternative in those years either?
I reiterate, I’ve never voted Conservative in a G.E., but I did vote Tory in the last Mayoral race in London, in a vain effort to keep Khan out.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I could write a several thousand word essay on this but you know at the end of the day it just boils down to a couple of simple things so I'm just going to say it as that;

The "average member of the general public" is thick as **** and easily hoodwinked. And secondly, there is currently no viable alternative.

I doubt the people you refer to even vote.

[bitontheslide]

the labour party are too big, they try and represent too wide a spectrum of political views. The public know this and don't trust them from whatever political preference they have.

There is a reason Starmer doesn't have a set of policies. To generate them would expose that labour just don't agree, and he doesn't have the power to dictate what policies will be followed. Meanwhile a small group of tories ... actually less than a handful, can set the tory agenda, set the public messaging and then the vast majority of tory mp's fall into line.

That is the reason tories can basically do anything they want

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the labour party are too big, they try and represent too wide a spectrum of political views. The public know this and don't trust them from whatever political preference they have.

There is a reason Starmer doesn't have a set of policies. To generate them would expose that labour just don't agree, and he doesn't have the power to dictate what policies will be followed. Meanwhile a small group of tories ... actually less than a handful, can set the tory agenda, set the public messaging and then the vast majority of tory mp's fall into line.

That is the reason tories can basically do anything they want

Why would he develop a set of policies when the next General is like three years away and there hasn't been a Conference since he became leader?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Tireur

Okay, I’ll bow to your superior knowledge of the intelligence of the U.K. electorate, but would it then follow that they weren’t so easily ‘hoodwinked’ by Labour in the run up to the elections of 2010, 2015, and 2017, prior to Bojo winning in 2019?
Or was there no viable alternative in those years either?
I reiterate, I’ve never voted Conservative in a G.E., but I did vote Tory in the last Mayoral race in London, in a vain effort to keep Khan out.

Labour hasn't been a viable opposition since Blair.

And the "hoodwinking" depends largely on the press and propaganda - for example, Blair got Murdoch on-side in the 90's, thus 10 years of New Labour.

It's a bit more complicated now because of how heavily Social Media affects public mindset but, largely, the press can still steer that too.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Why would he develop a set of policies when the next General is like three years away and there hasn't been a Conference since he became leader?

because he needs to present an alternative vision, and spend the years between elections publicising it and getting people used to it. There has been a conference. At the moment labour are singularly ineffective

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the labour party are too big, they try and represent too wide a spectrum of political views. The public know this and don't trust them from whatever political preference they have.

There is a reason Starmer doesn't have a set of policies. To generate them would expose that labour just don't agree, and he doesn't have the power to dictate what policies will be followed. Meanwhile a small group of tories ... actually less than a handful, can set the tory agenda, set the public messaging and then the vast majority of tory mp's fall into line.

That is the reason tories can basically do anything they want

Yes Labour is split between left-of-centrism, 20th century socialism, and identity politics-based progressivism.

On a whole plethora of issues - the ideologies barely overlap.

Of course the Tories have factions too but they're all largely rooted in Conservatism/disdain for the poor as an ideology so despite some in-fighting they can still come together on the big issues.

We need a proper, modern, sensible centre-left party that isn't bogged down in ****ing nonsense... or it's Tories forever.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Why would he develop a set of policies when the next General is like three years away and there hasn't been a Conference since he became leader?

Exactly.
No one can predict the situation or policies needed without full accurate information.

It makes me laugh when you have the present government and its supporters, screaming for the opposition's policies.

When this lot have been talking about social care policy for years with still not a scrap of detail on them.
Plus across the board this government is only now starting to look at its own policies and deciding to even scrap manifesto commitments in the last election, not even yet 2 years ago.

So the folly of presenting policy now by the opposition in this uncertainty would be a likely pointless exercise.

I do think Starmer needs to present a stronger vision.
However policy is decided at Party conference, once one is held again.
By and large the Labour Party is a kind of grand coalition party.
Without the more heartless elements of the current Con Party and its leadership.

Overall policy once decided is accepted by Labour MPs and the members..
As in 2017, when for the sake of around 20 less seats for the Cons, an even grander coalition could have been the government.

The Cons saved by the DUP of Northern Ireland.

You are correct the election is likely at least 2 years off.
So what is the point of creating derailed policies, when as you agree too, there's not been a full and proper conference too.

While we have the present government, changing its own policies from the manifesto, making new policies now.
Having to alter course on several areas, yet they have the full information and projections to hand.

They're struggling to come up with right and relevant policies even as the government.

How can the oppositions, all other opposition parties, come up with real and rigid policymaking at this time as you say.

One I would throw into the pot myself however is for the Labour party to adopt PR for all elections after the next one.
Take the narrative away from the Cons and adopt one that the Cons and two thirds of their supporters would never want.

As the Con party would then be the only party standing in elections who were solidly against PR.

Because yes, no party would likely ever win absolute power alone again.
However that would remove any party like this Con party, only getting around 40% of the actual votes cast..
However to then able to, with a massive 80 overall majority to just dismiss the near 60% who voted against them.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes Labour is split between left-of-centrism, 20th century socialism, and identity politics-based progressivism.

It's ridiculous that a major party even touches the latter, while the former benefits virtually everyone (as long as they're not using ridiculously high taxes). Identity politics on the other hand easily dissolves into divisive Marxist-flavoured extremism, where the Oppressor is the straight white man (regardless of his economic status), and everyone else is the Oppressed.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

It's ridiculous that a major party even touches the latter, while the former benefits virtually everyone (as long as they're not using ridiculously high taxes). Identity politics on the other hand easily dissolves into divisive Marxist-flavoured extremism, where the Oppressor is the straight white man (regardless of his economic status), and everyone else is the Oppressed.

What does the bit in bold actually mean? You do realise that Marxism is primarily about the rights of workers versus capitalistic abuses? Which you then go on to completely miss in the following line.

The problem with this centrism is amazing nonsense, is that the centre has now been pushed so far to the right by society and the rise of the right across the world, that centrism will not address any of the inequalities now faced, enabling the right to get straight back in.

People have been zombied into believing that money for things society needs is impossible, but we watch the government throw money at their friends. I'm not even talking solely about tories here as new labour were just as much into cronyism too. Capita - the biggest government services company around, all built on the back of the owners £1m donation to Blair.

It's a lot easier to pretend you're on a mountain looking down at everyone else being wrong and misguided from the centre, but let's see what this mythical centre-leftism has to offer, and I guarantee it'll be a lot closer to Cameron, than anything progressive like the NHS, paying nurses, addressing climate etc.

When a politician is called a communist for wanting free broadband for all, then you know it's not about ideas or policies at this stage, its status quo.

[Mystic Mock]

Someone got called a Communist for wanting free Broadband for everyone?

Shouldn't that be called a reasonable request?

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Someone got called a Communist for wanting free Broadband for everyone?

Shouldn't that be called a reasonable request?

Lefty BBC, no less.



Starmer is a centre-leftists wet dream - he's purged the left completely, knight of the realm, likes being photo'd buying wallpaper rather than offer any policies...

Centrists/centre-leftists should be delighted with labour, not still be saying they need a new centre-left party.