[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Because until they tested 200,000 vaccinated people then compared their data to 200,000 unvaccinated people there wasn’t a huge scale ‘picture‘ of things .

It also apparently showed the massive decline in antibodies a few weeks after the first dose .. . quickly dropping to 32% effectiveness against the virus unless the second one is given as initially prescribed ( 21 days after the first )
Our people were assuming it would stay in the 90% area for 12 weeks !!

We may see an early response from the government on this very matter , I think


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I would imagine 'our people' are tracking the data as well, anyhow lets see how it plays out, the things you find to worry about are limitless

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

why are they that bothered? maybe concentrate on their own vaccination programme and maybe in producing a vaccine themselves?

To be fair, they weren't studying it to comment on the UK strategy, they were just studying the real-world drop in infection rates 14 days after one dose, and found 33% reduction where the data that the UK decision was based on was that there was an 85+% reduction after one dose.

However... the article says "on day 14" it was 33% whereas the UK data measured the effect "between 14 and 21 days" do the data comparison is a bit iffy... 33% on day 14 is only JUST inside the window that immunity is expected at all.

The data @ 21 days would be much more useful.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, they weren't studying it to comment on the UK strategy, they were just studying the real-world drop in infection rates 14 days after one dose, and found 33% reduction where the data that the UK decision was based on was that there was an 85+% reduction after one dose.

However... the article says "on day 14" it was 33% whereas the UK data measured the effect "between 14 and 21 days" do the data comparison is a bit iffy... 33% on day 14 is only JUST inside the window that immunity is expected at all.

The data @ 21 days would be much more useful.

I thought they said anyone vaccinated would have to wait 21 days before immunity was triggered so checking at 14 days seems a bit odd

[Nicky91]

https://www.thelocal.de/20210119/ger...virus-variants

Germany: might be placing military and doctors at the border, routine control for virus variants (south african and british)



good idea, i luv my nation

[bitontheslide]

i always thought any vaccine showing a 90%+ protection was picking their test cases very carefully to get that result. The real world just doesn't work that way. So, when millions are given it, the protection rate can only really go in 1 direction. Peoples should only be concerned that it stops hospitalisation, thats the only thing that matters. I feel the public is yet again being manipulated

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I would imagine 'our people' are tracking the data as well, anyhow lets see how it plays out, the things you find to worry about are limitless

I do my best

Forewarned is well you know ...


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[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I thought they said anyone vaccinated would have to wait 21 days before immunity was triggered so checking at 14 days seems a bit odd

Not really .. if they’re testing 400,000 people why start 21 days after just because it’s the suggested optimum time .. it seems kinda obvious to start earlier to see what kind of protection you have after 14 days ..


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[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Not really .. if they’re testing 400,000 people why start 21 days after just because it’s the suggested optimum time .. it seems kinda obvious to start earlier to see what kind of protection you have after 14 days ..


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but if people are advised that the immune system wont trigger the full response until 21 days then the data is flawed? anyhow not getting into it, it is what it is

[Nicky91]

RTL Aktuell had another corona-special last night (watched by 3.22 million people in Germany)

few reactions to extending the lockdown, professor doctor Hendrik Streeck (who is their chief virologist) said numbers are going down, you can see difference with or without lockdown, but this is why he applauds Merkel and region leaders for extending it even further to 15th of February, but the corona mutations (especially british variant still quite unknown, and what they heard about south african variant, no cases atm there of that one, unknown and very dangerous, so this is why they want border checks to prevent people who might carry one of those mutated strains from entering the country)


people's reactions there all are quite understanding, disappointed of course but unlike in some other countries (rubbish netherlands for example) majority of german public knows lockdowns, curfews, vaccinating and good hygiene are whats best for the country

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

but if people are advised that the immune system wont trigger the full response until 21 days then the data is flawed? anyhow not getting into it, it is what it is

Well they have the data from 14 days ONWARDS so that doesn’t make all the data from 21 days irrelevant it just ‘shows’ the picture from before the suggested time ( 21 days).



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[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I thought they said anyone vaccinated would have to wait 21 days before immunity was triggered so checking at 14 days seems a bit odd

"Up to" 21 days (between 14 and 21 basically) but yeah that's why I think the data at 21 days+ is important, but at 14 days... not really all that meaningful? In a positive sense it confirms that immunity is indeed being triggered at 14 days in many people in a community (non-test-conditions) setting which is a great sign. It doesn't really predict at all what the picture will be at 21 days... nor does the article really even explain what's supposedly concerning. It basically says;

"Umm the UK tests said 85%+ would be immune at 21 days, but we just found out that only 33% are immune at 14 days!!"

... ... s... so what?

[Vanessa]

The vaccine is there to stop people getting hospitalised from covid.
So it's a good thing, because cases here in the UK are way too high.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

The vaccine is there to stop people getting hospitalised from covid.
So it's a good thing, because cases here in the UK are way too high.

Yes the Vaccine is now in Low stock
because Pfizer, are adjusting Production in Belgium
due to high Worldwide demand.

The OxfordAstraZenneca Vaccine
also not enough made, yet.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes the Vaccine is now in Low stock
because Pfizer, are adjusting Production in Belgium
due to high Worldwide demand.

The OxfordAstraZenneca Vaccine
also not enough made, yet.

Isn't Moderna online now as well?

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Isn't Moderna online now as well?

yes it is, and it has a different default interval requirement to pfizer

[Nicky91]

and Janssen vaccine (from Leiden) is also made available in few months from now (for EU countries first) but could also made available globally, if there is lots of interest of course

they recently said they are stepping up production now

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Isn't Moderna online now as well?

[U.K. Clears Moderna’s Vaccine to Add Third Covid-19 Shot]



Yes but it's not yet in the Country

[Zizu]

Patrick Vallance just confirmed that there’s little to no cover from the vaccine until day TEN ... and he’s not fully informed on the trials done by Israel but he’s expecting to get their data over the coming weeks ..

He did say that the government stated rate of 89% was based on clinical trials but when you start dealing with ‘real world’ situation then things aren’t quite as perfect ..


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[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Patrick Vallance just confirmed that there’s little to no cover from the vaccine until day TEN ... and he’s not fully informed on the trials done by Israel but he’s expecting to get their data over the coming weeks ..

He did say that the government stated rate of 89% was based on clinical trials but when you start dealing with ‘real world’ situation then things aren’t quite as perfect ..


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They've always said you don't get protected immediately

[bitontheslide]

it takes time for your body to make anti bodies, the 2nd jab gives your system another jolt which results in more anti bodies being produced. Nothing is instant, but its not the same for everyone either, some will produce anti bodies quicker than others. Because the minimum window for the 2nd jab is 3 weeks, then it follows that during that 3 week period your body will be busy manufacturing

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

They've always said you don't get protected immediately

Believing that any vaccine works immediately requires a complete misunderstanding of what a vaccine is, what it does, and how it works .

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

They've always said you don't get protected immediately

Obviously .. but nobody has put a time / figure on WHEN you will have SOME immunity ie 10 seconds onwards ..


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[arista]

[Nine Met Police officers have been fined
for breaching lockdown rules to meet at
a cafe while on duty.

Pictures emerged online showing the officers,
from the South East Basic Command Unit,
eating at The Chef House Kitchen Cafe,
Greenwich, on 9 January.]

[All nine officers have been issued
with a £200 fixed penalty notice.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55730459

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Obviously .. but nobody has put a time / figure on WHEN you will have SOME immunity ie 10 seconds onwards ..


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They can't as it'll be different for everyone, all people are not biologically identical. If you want a VERY loose rule of thumb; you're unlikely to see anything happening before 3/4 days, but beyond that, it can take several weeks to develop a good level of antibodies. 3 weeks is a decent testing point. Under 2 weeks is pretty pointless. The study above is bang-on 14 days so doesn't really paint a very reliable picture... I'd rather see their figures at 21 days.

[arista]

Today
1,820 have Died

38,950 have caught Covid-19

Patients in hospital
Latest available
39,068

Patients on ventilation
Latest available
3,947

93,290Total UK deaths


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/