[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Because there are always a few that spoil it for the rest and abuse the system...

Every section of society will have people who will try to scam or abuse the system though

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Every section of society will have people who will try to scam or abuse the system though

Yes I know...

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Novo

i wouldn't even say a few i'd say a lot that can get by but abuse it like with food banks and it further punishes the very poor

There will always be people who will take advantage of a situation...they are the lowest of the low.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Because there are always a few that spoil it for the rest and abuse the system...

...they are just a small minority, though...and the system can’t be punished because of that few...for some families, there are reasons why a food parcel might be the better way...but that has to be monitored because it’s in no way a parent who is letting a child down by what’s being said to be given out with some atm...it’s the government for not monitoring and making sure that the food in the parcels meet a family’s needs....I mean, ironic really that some parents seem to be being judged as ‘not to have trust placed on them’ and yet, it’s catering companies themselves who are taking from the children....

[The Slim Reaper]

This whole debate shows it's ideology and not facts that decide how people feel about it.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...they are just a small minority, though...and the system can’t be punished because of that few.

I think that's the crux of it and unfortunately, many people are willing to see exactly that happen. They would genuinely rather see ten genuine people go without than one disingenuous person "getting away with it". Even when we're talking scraps and pennies.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think that's the crux of it and unfortunately, many people are willing to see exactly that happen. They would genuinely rather see ten genuine people go without than one disingenuous person "getting away with it". Even when we're talking scraps and pennies.

Absolutely.

That's an extremely sad reality but it is a reality.
You're spot on there TS.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think that's the crux of it and unfortunately, many people are willing to see exactly that happen. They would genuinely rather see ten genuine people go without than one disingenuous person "getting away with it". Even when we're talking scraps and pennies.

...it’s the children that ‘go without’, though....however people judge other parents and for whatever basis they feel they have...it’s the children who are being ‘punished’...

[Ammi]

...having said that, we have to assume that it’s generally a small minority of people as well who do judge...in the interest of fairness...

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...having said that, we have to assume that it’s generally a small minority of people as well who do judge...in the interest of fairness...

If it was, the government be allowed to get away with it.

[Kizzy]

The issue for me is having 'companies' Do this, they are profit driven and this is the reason £30 amounts to that amount of food because the business takes their percentage.
Why not leave it to communities? I'm sure they would be able to sort this better. I don't agree with vouchers either, not because they may be exploited but it would take from the spirit of community it has created, the sheer volume of donations and surplus stock from supermarkets shows how we are more than willing to support the vulnerable, vouchers would take that away.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

If it was, the government be allowed to get away with it.

...I guess that I can mainly go on my own personal experiences in my school/work life of parents and the more often judgements I’ve experienced on low income/benefit funded families...and at any one time...?...(...obviously school years differ etc, it’s not a static thing....)..the majority are definitely very supportive and don’t judge at all ...in fact always form groups to help if they can...there are only a few, who tend to generally ‘playground gossip’ about most things...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...it’s the children that ‘go without’, though....however people judge other parents and for whatever basis they feel they have...it’s the children who are being ‘punished’...

Yes and no... I think when children go without, it's often (tragically) inevitable... when things like this are taken away across the board, most parents will do whatever it takes to have it impact their kids the least, which means that they will siphon funds out of other things to keep their kids properly fed. And that's how people end up with unpaid bills and debt spirals, with the stress and anxiety of being chased by creditors for years, or eventual insolvency and everything that comes with that. The irony there of course is that that also actively damages the economy... FAR more than just helping people out in the first place.

I'll never forget what things were like for me in my mid-20's with a toddler and **** all money. She would never, ever have gone without but I can vividly feel that jolt of absolute panic that would come with an "unexpected bill" because other finances were so close to the wire. Or the feeling of walking 2 miles to the shop in shoes with holes in them so that she could have decent clothes and a decent buggy etc.

Life now is an absolute world away from that, our household income has literally quadrupled, but it's not that long ago... just 10 years or so.

So yeah off on a slight tangent - just saying, I guess, that a lot of parents absolutely will trim something away from themselves to shield their children, and taking away small things like this, even in cases where it doesn't seem to have a huge impact on the kids themselves, means they'll have to find some more, somewhere, to skim from their own outgoings in order to not impact their kids. A truly horrible situation to be in.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Yes and no... I think when children go without, it's often (tragically) inevitable... when things like this are taken away across the board, most parents will do whatever it takes to have it impact their kids the least, which means that they will siphon funds out of other things to keep their kids properly fed. And that's how people end up with unpaid bills and debt spirals, with the stress and anxiety of being chased by creditors for years, or eventual insolvency and everything that comes with that. The irony there of course is that that also actively damages the economy... FAR more than just helping people out in the first place.

I'll never forget what things were like for me in my mid-20's with a toddler and **** all money. She would never, ever have gone without but I can vividly feel that jolt of absolute panic that would come with an "unexpected bill" because other finances were so close to the wire. Or the feeling of walking 2 miles to the shop in shoes with holes in them so that she could have decent clothes and a decent buggy etc.

Life now is an absolute world away from that, our household income has literally quadrupled, but it's not that long ago... just 10 years or so.

So yeah off on a slight tangent - just saying, I guess, that a lot of parents absolutely will trim something away from themselves to shield their children, and taking away small things like this, even in cases where it doesn't seem to have a huge impact on the kids themselves, means they'll have to find some more, somewhere, to skim from their own outgoings in order to not impact their kids. A truly horrible situation to be in.

...I meant in terms specifically related to judging parents of not spending the allowance on food, TS...if and when that judgement is made ...that a family funding wouldn’t be spent on food ...?....it’s the child(ren) who will lose out...so effectively they’re the ones being judged...

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I'm not particularly thrifty but I could make £30 go a lot further than that...

I could go to the meat market/auctions and get 5 big steaks for a tenner and with them I can make stews, steak pies ect. Alternatively I can get about 8 or 9 chicken breasts for a tenner.

[Kizzy]

I think the amount who judge are considerable.. theyre made to judge, look at headlines across decades 'scummy mummy' ' pramface' all manner of poverty porn, 'can't pay well take it away', ' benefits street' and others.
Societal division was and is the norm.
Does anyone think this was unintentional?... of course not and to an extent it's worked, communities are massively fragmented to how they were in say our grandparents day.

Thankfully that process is not yet complete, which is why you have those who fill the bags and baskets at the supermarket for those who need the support.

Are the cries of 'bleeding heart' ' sjw' levelled at those who help and think we should help.. Is that part and parcel of the undermining of societal cohesion?

Are those divided easier to manipulate and exploit?

[The Slim Reaper]

[Vanessa]

Those food parcels aren't worth 30 pounds.
Where's the food? There's hardly anything in it!

[Alf]

My opinion hasn't changed. I believe the Children in need charity should be having this covered.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

Those food parcels aren't worth 30 pounds.
Where's the food? There's hardly anything in it!

Yeah its Pathetic really , might as well of given them vouchers to buy their own food .

[The Slim Reaper]

Just a reminder that Corbyn wanted to enshrine the right to food for every citizen.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Just a reminder that Corbyn wanted to enshrine the right to food for every citizen.

Of course he did the virtue signalling snowflake!!

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

My opinion hasn't changed. I believe the Children in need charity should be having this covered.

They can't cover everything. Nor should a charity be needed to cover basic essentials in a country like ours.

[SherzyK]

I knew it was bad in the UK but I didn’t know it was this bad

That rogue tomato though

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Every section of society will have people who will try to scam or abuse the system though

Exactly. Do the other MP's have to suffer when the ones who abuse the expenses system are caught out?