[Oliver_W]

Joe Biden has wasted little time grabbing rights from women and girls across America. On day one, he signed an Executive Order on 'Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation'. This is being hailed as a pivotal moment for transgender rights. But it's nothing of the sort.

The mention of 'Gender Identity' alone is enough to raise the alarm about the consequences of this proposal. Gender identity might be a popular concept right now, but it isn't even clear what it means. Put simply, it's a concept which refers to a person's individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond with the sex assigned at birth. All too often, though, this rather circular definition is underpinned by sexist stereotypes involving dress, speech, and mannerisms.

Biden will be hailed as 'progressive' for this initiative, but don't be fooled: gender identity is about a feeling that some people claim to possess. And when this feeling displaces biological sex as a means of dividing society we should all worry. After all, if we ignore sex, we ignore sexism.

Worryingly, too, this order could sweep away girls' sex-based rights. The first paragraph tells us this:

'Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports.'

Let’s be clear about what this means in reality: boys who identify as girls could soon be able to use girls' locker rooms, even if girls using those facilities feel uncomfortable about that. And in school sports, boys who identify as girls could soon be competing alongside girls, despite often having physical advantages, such as being stronger or taller than their peers.

This isn't simply my interpretation of Biden's order. The order cites a Supreme Court ruling – Bostock v Clayton County – to argue that sex discrimination laws covers discrimination on the basis of gender identity. Within 100 days, plans will need to be drawn up to ensure that boys who identify as girls are not discriminated against on the basis of their gender identity.

You can see where this is going. Abigail Shrier, author of Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters, was clinical in her analysis:

'A new glass ceiling was just placed over girls.'

She's right. And there is a good reason why 'Biden Erased Women' is now trending on Twitter. The very laws that were established to protect the rights of girls to single sex toilets, changing rooms and sports could soon be turned upside down by presidential decree. Legislation that was intended to protect the rights of girls to single-sex provision could now make single-sex services impossible. Assuming, that is, you agree with me that sex is determined by our biology and not by feelings in our heads, you'll share in my view that this is bad news. If you disagree with me, then you may well think I am an appalling transphobic bigot.

This is not about me, however; it is about girls in America. If they want to avoid being labelled as transphobic – or worse – they will be expected to make room for boys who identify as girls. And not just in the locker room. Scholarships, bursaries, protected places in politics and public life: everything is up for grabs.

If I am charitable, I would say that Biden is trying to be kind to transgender people – like me – who do face discrimination simply because we do not conform to the expectations placed on our sex. The tragedy is that his naivety – that men and boys will not take advantage – has eclipsed the work that needs to be done, and is being done.

On Biden's first day as president, White House press secretary Jen Psaki announced that Biden will soon reverse the ban on transgender people serving openly in the military. Good. But protecting transgender people from discrimination does not require rights to be removed from others. That is where Biden’s Executive Order goes wrong. Indeed the resentment that is already brewing among women – and rightly so – eats into the acceptance that transgender people have hitherto enjoyed. If Biden is not careful he will end up pleasing nobody.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...news-for-women

Thoughts?

I don't think people generally want their teen daughters sharing female spaces with boys, even if the boys do identify as girls...

Sex based rights are important, including the rights to female only spaces; why couldn't Biden help out transwomen without negatively affecting women.

[UserSince2005]

Hes a monster.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by UserSince2005

Hes a monster.

I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.

I agree. Allowing biological males compete against biological females in sports competing for college places for example is going to expose the pitfalls with this and the ways in which it can be abused. I'm sure it's all come from a good place and a want to be inclusive but you don't want to end up excluding biological girls/women in the process either

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wouldn't go that far, it probably came from a good, if misjudged place.

Hes a ****ing idiot then

[Jessica.]

Trans women are women, they deserve to be treated the same as other women no matter what.

[Marsh.]

Tbf there's a lot of "COULD soon be".

[Jessica.]

Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Trans women are women, they deserve to be treated the same as other women no matter what.

Spouting off a catch phrase isn't reality though, there are biological advantages males have over females, that's the whole reason sport was separated by sex in the first place so how is it fair on biological girls/women to change that separation now to gender separation instead of sex? nobody has a gender advantage when it comes to sport

[Scarlett.]

-Me being dumb-

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?

It's not disgust to point out a biological reality. Again when it comes to sport it's to do with transwomen because they're the ones with the biological advantage. I've not seen a transman beat any male sports records yet, there's been quite a few women's records beaten so far though by transwomen, why do you think that is?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

Also why is the disgust always towards trans women? Do trans men not make you all feel fragile either?

Who has shown disgust? No one.

[Scarlett.]

-Me being dumb-

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

This is Big Terfs back at it again

I'm a woman, I have a right to speak up about women's rights without being insulted. Do you disagree with the point I made? If so what have I said that is incorrect?

[Scarlett.]

-Me being dumb-

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

Terfs are toxic and this forum is full of them and I'm sick of biting my toungue you can all go **** yourselves

If you can't actually respond to anything Niamh said it's probably best to say nothing.

[Scarlett.]

-Me being dumb-

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

I dont ****ing care, terf

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

I dont ****ing care, terf

lovely

[UserSince2005]

[Vicky.]

It comes from a good place, however there is no thought whatsoever about female people. In sports particularly. There is a lot of evidence that its unfair, yet some still push for it (see Stonewall still pushing for transwomen in womens rugby, in the face of the evidence that shows this is very dangerous aswell as unfair). Because..well women don't matter seemingly. Won't post anymore in this as know how these threads go, but Debbie Hayton..I tend to agree with on most things. She is also a transwoman, but one who acknowledges biological reality and thinks about women aswell as trans people instead of putting women at the back of the line for everything. The lack of consideration for women during this whole 'trans rights' thing is vile tbh. Yet women are the bigoted ones for saying they should be bloody considered while their rights and protections are stripped away. Its possible to advance trans rights without trampling over womens rights. There are many ways to do this. Just activists seem to not want to do that, much easier to just threaten women into silence and take over. Activists seem the issue in this tbh, as actual transsexual people tend to be decent people who think about all, such as Debbie Hayton. Such transsexual people, get as much grief and threats from activists as women who dare to speak up do!

Tbh, these days I don't even take 'terf' as an insult. Because its thrown at anyone who gives any thought to biological women. Even if they also support trans people (or transwomen, that should be. Given transmen are kind of invivisble in this. Which is odd as if that followed the usual pattern, transmen activists would be the ones shouting over women and transwomen.)...just the fact they think about women is horrendous and bigoted.

[Scarlett.]

-Me being dumb-

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Tbf there's a lot of "COULD soon be".

Hmm. I sort of see this... I honestly don't think, if women's sports got to the point where the top tiers were entirely dominated by transwomen, or it was obvious that things like sports scholarships were being hoovered up by transwomen, that it would continue forever. I think if it happened, action would be taken to stop it happening. They would stuff the genie back in the bottle.

But that would come with a whooole range of other problems.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

How about shut the **** up

If this is your only response to Niamh's argument it only makes her seem more right.

An emotional response instead of a logical one doesn't convince anyone.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

Almost as lovely as having your existence questioned every ****ing day, and then the same people who question your existence claim they're being silenced

Niamh hasn't questioned your existence. She's discussing actual examples where women and transwomen ARE different.

Acting like a child about it doesn't change this.