[Oliver_W]

Yeah they seem to be doing okay. It doesn't erase the terrible work they've done so far, and I wonder if they'll be trying as hard once the May council elections are done and dusted. "Ohhh, they're trying their best! Look at how well they're doing with the vaccine!! Maybe they're not so bad after all!!!"

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Yeah they seem to be doing okay. It doesn't erase the terrible work they've done so far, and I wonder if they'll be trying as hard once the May council elections are done and dusted. "Ohhh, they're trying their best! Look at how well they're doing with the vaccine!! Maybe they're not so bad after all!!!"

What the hell you think this is about the May elections

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Cherie

What the hell you think this is about the May elections

Not necessarily nor do I think they admittedly okay job they're doing with the vaccine is representative of how they've been doing up to this point. It's just, most governments start doing crowd-pleasers when a general election is round the corner. I could see the tories getting decimated in council elections if they'd continued to hopelessly flounder to the same degree...

[Gstar]

Vaccination programme: Maybe
Pandemic as a whole: No

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

You do realise we are the second fastest country in the world per population? There are 195 countries. I really don’t think we could have been any faster or done any better...

We pre ordered the first and third approved vaccines (out of about 30 at stage 3) straight away and have logistically managed to vaccine as many people as possible per the supply demands.

I feel it’s a bit pedantic to try and say we should have been faster or vaccinate more people.. I mean can you look at this chart and say that with a straight face... really.. no really? Don’t let any biases show

The irony.

Tables don't matter to me, just because we're second doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. we aren't perfect and excusing the need for improvement because we're doing better than most countries is pointless. We can always do better, and we should strive to do just that.

The only times we should be comparing ourselves to other countries is if they are doing something we could do to improve our situation, using other countries performances as an excuse to not do better is a terrible attitude.

[Samm]

Yes the vaccine programme is going well. However it’s one of the only elements during this crisis the government didn’t have complete control over. Oxford scientists were able to work amazingly to find a vaccine so quickly through a world effort. All the government have done is effectively bought enough doses and planned ahead because our death figure is the highest in Europe.

The government however DID have direct control over locking down the country sooner, limiting travel and closing borders, lifting lockdowns too early , the dreaded tier system and of course not forgetting eat out to help out.

[DouglasS]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The irony.

Tables don't matter to me, just because we're second doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. we aren't perfect and excusing the need for improvement because we're doing better than most countries is pointless. We can always do better, and we should strive to do just that.

The only times we should be comparing ourselves to other countries is if they are doing something we could do to improve our situation, using other countries performances as an excuse to not do better is a terrible attitude.

The point is we are dominating... miles and miles ahead.. in terms of speed of the vaccine rollout and also in our supply.

It’s like critasizing countries like New Zealand And Australia saying they did a rubbish job because they weren’t covid free sooner..

it’s just quite silly to not be able to congratulate countries when they have done objectively well. I use data and charts because it uses data and it is comparable, it is better to use that rather than random bias opinions. This data isn’t bias, it is a breakdown of each country. The U.K. dominating in the vaccine efforts..

[DouglasS]

Originally Posted by Samm

Yes the vaccine programme is going well. However it’s one of the only elements during this crisis the government didn’t have complete control over. Oxford scientists were able to work amazingly to find a vaccine so quickly through a world effort. All the government have done is effectively bought enough doses and planned ahead because our death figure is the highest in Europe.

The government however DID have direct control over locking down the country sooner, limiting travel and closing borders, lifting lockdowns too early , the dreaded tier system and of course not forgetting eat out to help out.

Downplaying the governments efforts

This vaccination programme will probably be one of the most amazing and astonishing things a government has ever done

A vaccine rollout task is not some simple task. They got millions of supply of the first vaccine to be approved and ensured they were top of the list. They researched incredibly well. They had hospital storage space ready immediately across the entire country, they trained up thousands of people in advance across the country to help with mass vaccination. They heavily funded into the Oxford vaccine to help it progress as fast as it did so it would be one of the leading vaccines, they were also ready for the mass vaccination as soon as it got ready.

Just because you don’t like the tories doesn’t mean you should just downplay a great accomplishment, surely objectively speaking you can see this as a great achievement by the government and they have done really well in this aspect (quite a large aspect) of the pandemic

[Glenn.]

One ok thing against at least half a dozen life ending decisions...

[Saph]

vaccine the young people first so we can go out lmao

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Saph

vaccine the young people first so we can go out lmao

no, not all young people (only those in a risk group, those who got asthma, other medical conditions)

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Saph

vaccine the young people first so we can go out lmao

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Samm

Yes the vaccine programme is going well. However it’s one of the only elements during this crisis the government didn’t have complete control over. Oxford scientists were able to work amazingly to find a vaccine so quickly through a world effort. All the government have done is effectively bought enough doses and planned ahead because our death figure is the highest in Europe.

The government however DID have direct control over locking down the country sooner, limiting travel and closing borders, lifting lockdowns too early , the dreaded tier system and of course not forgetting eat out to help out.

You are right.
Also too they have in the main handed the responsibility of the vaccine roll out rightly to public health and the local sources.

This is what can bring the best possible success when you use the right sourcing rather than looking for private sources.

So across the board the vaccine roll out has been successful from to their credit on the vaccine, how the government decided to have it done.

There will be tests to come.
The problem arose of not carrying out the still recommended or not much longer second vaccine to be given.

The success of the second roll out of that will be equally as vital and important as this first roll out.

So as you say, it is something the government had little to no control over as to the vaccines.

Whereas too, your last paragraph cannot be disputed and along with other very serious things you as well as your list, definitely.
The government had full control on those things, not with hindsight either but actually with forewarning from January last year of what was to come.

Well said Samm.

[Samm]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

You are right.
Also too they have in the main handed the responsibility of the vaccine roll out rightly to public health and the local sources.

This is what can bring the best possible success when you use the right sourcing rather than looking for private sources.

So across the board the vaccine roll out has been successful from to their credit on the vaccine, how the government decided to have it done.

There will be tests to come.
The problem arose of not carrying out the still recommended or not much longer second vaccine to be given.

The success of the second roll out of that will be equally as vital and important as this first roll out.

So as you say, it is something the government had little to no control over as to the vaccines.

Whereas too, your last paragraph cannot be disputed and along with other very serious things you as well as your list, definitely.
The government had full control on those things, not with hindsight either but actually with forewarning from January last year of what was to come.

Well said Samm.

Yep Joey! great point about the use of local sources, I really didn’t think of that. It begs the question then since so far the vaccine roll out has been so successful with this method. I wonder if our shockingly bad test and trace system would of been of “world beating” standard had the government sourced this through public health and local sources, instead of the private source they used!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Samm

Yep Joey! great point about the use of local sources, I really didn’t think of that. It begs the question then since so far the vaccine roll out has been so successful with this method. I wonder if our shockingly bad test and trace system would of been of “world beating” standard had the government sourced this through public health and local sources, instead of the private source they used!

Yes, I do myself personally believe test, track and trace would have had much more success under the full direction of more public health and local sourced action.

[Oliver_W]

I wouldn't necessarily mind the government using a private developer for the track and trace, but the one they chose was so crap and so expensive...

Like, Facebook and that app, square something? They can keep track of where you're going based on location data and public check-in points, how hard would it be to use that tech as a blueprint?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

In theory if you wanted global eradication, the best path forward would be a global approach of vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable and then working down the groups in sync...

However, the sort of global organization effort needed for that doesn't exist and in the current world cannot exist, different countries are going to move at different rates, and (frankly) at least half of the global population is never even going to be offered vaccination. Global eradication is simply not possible and Covid will continue to circulate, thus, the next best option is to concentrate efforts locally to mitigate the worst of it, and probably constant vaccine development to tackle new emerging strains as they appear, if they're particularly worrying ones.

[The Slim Reaper]

The 1 year anniversary of this iconic speech given by Boris. He's doing his best...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

The 1 year anniversary of this iconic speech given by Boris. He's doing his best...

The right of human populations, throughout the earth, to ... ... ... buy 'n' sell ****.

Isn't that just capitalism dogma in a nutshell. Elevation of what started as a way to barter goods and services to get stuff done a little more easily, into some sort of philosophically intrinsic aspect of human existence. It's just so ... ... empty.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

In theory if you wanted global eradication, the best path forward would be a global approach of vaccinating the elderly and vulnerable and then working down the groups in sync...

However, the sort of global organization effort needed for that doesn't exist and in the current world cannot exist, different countries are going to move at different rates, and (frankly) at least half of the global population is never even going to be offered vaccination. Global eradication is simply not possible and Covid will continue to circulate, thus, the next best option is to concentrate efforts locally to mitigate the worst of it, and probably constant vaccine development to tackle new emerging strains as they appear, if they're particularly worrying ones.

So the young and healthy are meant to sit around, twiddling our thumbs, waiting for people who might not even be offered a vaccination to catch up?
Nah.
The global approach should start at home.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

The point is we are dominating... miles and miles ahead.. in terms of speed of the vaccine rollout and also in our supply.

It’s like critasizing countries like New Zealand And Australia saying they did a rubbish job because they weren’t covid free sooner..

it’s just quite silly to not be able to congratulate countries when they have done objectively well. I use data and charts because it uses data and it is comparable, it is better to use that rather than random bias opinions. This data isn’t bias, it is a breakdown of each country. The U.K. dominating in the vaccine efforts..

No, that's not the point, you've completely missed the point, actually.

It doesn't matter if we're 'dominating', if we can do better, we should do better. People are dying everyday, we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back until we bring that number down to 0.

It's nothing like Australia or New Zealand because they took pre-emptive measures that allowed them to damn near eradicate Covid in their countries and deal with it quickly when it came back. Boris and the government sleepwalked into this crisis despite knowing how bad it would be which is why our death and infection rates are awful. Your comparison lacks all context or relation to what I'm saying.

You see it as a competition, as long as we're doing the 'best' that's enough and it's not. This isn't a competition, it's a crisis and we shouldn't use leaderboards as an excuse to allow complacency. Leaderboard don't mean **** when we're still struggling to contain the virus.

Also, you really need to stop using 'bias' like it's some buzzword that instantly wins an argument for you, especially when you're too busy cheerleading a government with mostly failures under it's belt for this crisis. To accuse anyone of bias when you're waving a union jack at the UK being high up on a ****ing leaderboard while trying to shoot down suggestions that we could do better in the middle of a pandemic that is kicking our arses is just too much.

It's not bias on my end, it's being realistic. Your misplaced loyalty to a political party makes it impossible for you to criticise them or accept they can do no wrong even when it's proven they have (Re: Priti Patel). Honestly, you're just projecting.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Some nutters seem to think that once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy should wait for the rest of the world to be done..

Erm I would prefer a variation on this.

Once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated, the young and healthy can wait for a vaccine if they wish, but otherwise, are free to make their own choice (especially now it seems that there is indeed some stopping of actually catching covid with the vaccines also, not just lower chance of bad illness). It remains a waste of money, time and vaccines to me, to vaccinate younger healthy people really. Yeah if they actively want it. But given it would likely be a 'stay in for another X month waiting for your vaccine' or 'take your tiny tiny risk of getting it badly and live again now'..I cannot imagine the young and fit vaccine line would be too long really. Its always been about the vulnerable. I find it a little depressing when younger people I know are absolutely terrified for their own risk, mainly due to the media repeating the same couple of outliers of younger fit people dying, and such. And while I am well aware that covid is not flu, the vaccine situation I tend to compare in my head, those thinking everyone in the country should get it..would they also push for those not in high risk groups to get the flu vaccine too? I would rather focus went on those who are higher risk, tbh.

I still think its likely a new vaccine may be needed semi regularly, maybe not as often as the flu one, but more than a one off. Focus should really be on getting that right for the people who need it, or would very much benefit from it. Figures dn't really bear out, that younger fitter people wold have much benefit really. There is not endless cash for this either, so in my mind funding should be directed to where its more needed.

[Cherie]

Indonesia are vaccinating the youngest first

Vaccination against COVID-19: why does Indonesia prioritize younger people?
Although the Southeast Asian country also chose to vaccinate, first, health professionals and workers on the so-called front line, they are followed by economically active groups between 18 to 59 years old, Reuters reported.

The reason is linked to the theory of herd immunity: Indonesia is committed to achieving herd immunity faster than other countries that have already started vaccinating their population, such as Argentina, the United States and the United Kingdom.

[Oliver_W]

and to be fair, a good way to stop new worldwide variants coming in would be to close the borders, as SAGE and Air Kier recommend. There's no need to keep allowing people in at this time.

[rusticgal]

I think they are doing a magnificent job....its so easy to sit back and critisise. No other Politician would have wanted to be in Boris's shoes leading his country through a pandemic...so all they do it fault him at any opportunity. Of course mistakes have been made..and sadly many lives lost...but we through money at creating a vaccine and when we got one we stuck our order in and now we are rolling it out with efficiency....