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Old 17-06-2021, 06:53 AM #51
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poor girl


this sort of trouble wouldn't have been if she wanted asylum in my nation
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Old 17-06-2021, 06:57 AM #52
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Quote:
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Well it's not a ridiculous comparison, young people involved in terrorism aren't overly dissimilar to Hitler Youth.

They’re not, and his point was that back at the end of WW2 we understood that the teenagers in the Hitler youth were just dumb kids who had been brainwashed by adults and we allowed them the chance at rehabilitation and re-education.

Nowadays the attitude is “boooo 16 is old enough to take responsibility hang em all”.

But let’s call it like it is here - she’d get more sympathy if she looked like Hitler youth. We all know that.
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Old 17-06-2021, 06:59 AM #53
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tbf she kinda shot herself in the foot with her "I deserve sympathy" video

She does deserve sympathy but yeah people asking for it themselves is always off putting.

Very on-brand GenZ, though.
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Old 17-06-2021, 10:30 AM #54
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But let’s call it like it is here - she’d get more sympathy if she looked like Hitler youth. We all know that.
As shown by all the sympathy Dylan Roof got?
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Old 17-06-2021, 10:34 AM #55
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Samantha Lewthwaite didn't get a sympathetic hearing from the public and she's white. I can't imagine anyone wanting her back here.
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Old 17-06-2021, 01:24 PM #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
They’re not, and his point was that back at the end of WW2 we understood that the teenagers in the Hitler youth were just dumb kids who had been brainwashed by adults and we allowed them the chance at rehabilitation and re-education.

Nowadays the attitude is “boooo 16 is old enough to take responsibility hang em all”.

But let’s call it like it is here - she’d get more sympathy if she looked like Hitler youth. We all know that.
Pretty much, it's all about engaging in a bit of armchair bloodlust, really, especially when the target isn't white. She definitely would get more sympathy if she was white (although how much more, who could say?)

I don't know whether rehabilitation is possible, but either way, she should be brought back to face trial for her crimes. All we've done in stripping her citizenship is make her another country's problem and you would never hear the end of it if another country did that to us.
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Old 18-06-2021, 12:00 PM #57
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‘Overwhelming evidence’ Shamima Begum was victim of trafficking, court hears…


There is “overwhelming evidence” that Shamima Begum was a victim of trafficking when she left the UK, a court has heard.

Ms Begum was 15 when she and two other east London schoolgirls travelled to Syria to join the so-called Islamic State group in February 2015.

Her British citizenship was revoked on national security grounds shortly after she was found, nine months pregnant, in a Syrian refugee camp in February 2019.

Ms Begum, now 21, is challenging the Home Office’s decision to remove her British citizenship and has asked a specialist tribunal to consider whether she was a victim of trafficking when she travelled to Syria.

Her lawyers told the Special Immigration Appeals Commission (SIAC) at a hearing on Friday that the Home Office had a legal duty to investigate whether Ms Begum was a victim of trafficking when her citizenship was revoked.

Samantha Knights QC said that “the counter-terrorism unit had suspicions of coercion and control” at the time Ms Begum left the UK, which she argued “gives rise to the need to investigate the issue of trafficking”.


…full article…

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/overwhelmi...104028416.html
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Old 18-06-2021, 12:05 PM #58
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the problem that she has is that she did that TV interview where she showed zero remorse and clearly held the same views years later to the ones that led to her leaving the UK. That can't be taken back
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Old 18-06-2021, 12:13 PM #59
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Originally Posted by bitontheslide View Post
the problem that she has is that she did that TV interview where she showed zero remorse and clearly held the same views years later to the ones that led to her leaving the UK. That can't be taken back
She's still a relative kid though, bots. Regardless of anything else, she is still our responsibility.
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Old 18-06-2021, 12:18 PM #60
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She was allowed to be groomed, brainwashed and radicalised on British soil, she was a child that was taken advantage of by extremists, whatever decision she made due to the brainwashing, she is our responsibility
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Old 18-06-2021, 12:19 PM #61
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Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper View Post
She's still a relative kid though, bots. Regardless of anything else, she is still our responsibility.
i don't want her back here, i freely admit that, but i do think its pretty dodgy for our government to say, not our problem, she can't come back. Given international law and the precedence it sets, it will come back to bite us at some point
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Old 18-06-2021, 12:58 PM #62
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Originally Posted by bitontheslide View Post
i don't want her back here, i freely admit that, but i do think its pretty dodgy for our government to say, not our problem, she can't come back. Given international law and the precedence it sets, it will come back to bite us at some point
I pretty much agree with you. It's about doing the right thing, even when it's not ideal
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Old 18-06-2021, 01:01 PM #63
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If she has genuinely completely changed her beliefs, which she claims is the case and appears to be the case, and can probably be verified rather easily by experts (she's a 21 year old who has had no formal education since 15 - not Natasha Romanoff) there's no rational reason to not allow her back into the country, and even to consider her worth as a possible asset against Islamic extremist trafficking and grooming.

I would feel differently if she had been an active combatant in ISIS but she was groomed as a "wife" (sex slave and baby producing machine) and kept in a camp.

I fully understand that the general public doesn't understand how brainwashing and grooming works, why teenagers (children) are especially vulnerable to it, and that even people who become genuinely dangerous because of it are still themselves victims in another sense...

...but that's why the general public's opinion shouldn't come into these decisions. But it does, time and time again, not because of safety, not because of science, but because of political populism.

Last edited by Toy Soldier; 18-06-2021 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 18-06-2021, 01:31 PM #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier View Post
If she has genuinely completely changed her beliefs, which she claims is the case and appears to be the case, and can probably be verified rather easily by experts (she's a 21 year old who has had no formal education since 15 - not Natasha Romanoff) there's no rational reason to not allow her back into the country, and even to consider her worth as a possible asset against Islamic extremist trafficking and grooming.

I would feel differently if she had been an active combatant in ISIS but she was groomed as a "wife" (sex slave and baby producing machine) and kept in a camp.

I fully understand that the general public doesn't understand how brainwashing and grooming works, why teenagers (children) are especially vulnerable to it, and that even people who become genuinely dangerous because of it are still themselves victims in another sense...

...but that's why the general public's opinion shouldn't come into these decisions. But it does, time and time again, not because of safety, not because of science, but because of political populism.
Yup, common sense and morality doesn't come into it. It's just all about appealing to people's lowest vindictive instincts. I'll keep saying it until the end of time but if this situation was reversed and we couldn't deport a terrorist supporter because their country stripped them of their citizenship then the same people who support it in Begum's case would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe was on the other foot.

Regardless of anything else, we can't strip someone of their citizenship, especially when their only other tie to a country is through a husband to which she was trafficked into a marriage in which she was basically a sex slave.

Let her come back, have her face a trial, have her serve out her sentence and try to deprogram any radicalism. Not taking responsibility is a childish response.
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Old 18-06-2021, 02:32 PM #65
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Yup, common sense and morality doesn't come into it. It's just all about appealing to people's lowest vindictive instincts. I'll keep saying it until the end of time but if this situation was reversed and we couldn't deport a terrorist supporter because their country stripped them of their citizenship then the same people who support it in Begum's case would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe was on the other foot.

Regardless of anything else, we can't strip someone of their citizenship, especially when their only other tie to a country is through a husband to which she was trafficked into a marriage in which she was basically a sex slave.

Let her come back, have her face a trial, have her serve out her sentence and try to deprogram any radicalism. Not taking responsibility is a childish response.
It is and when "the voters won't like it" starts dictating the outcome of diplomatic and legal decisions, the drawbacks of democracy really start coming into focus. The Internet plays a part too, to be honest. A couple of decades ago she'd have been brought back, questioned and given a prison sentence and 99% of the public wouldn't have batted an eye... or probably have heard about it at all.
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:09 AM #66
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She is going Live on GMBHD itv
at around 7:15AM From a Syria Live link.
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:20 AM #67
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Live now on GMBHD itv


Now saying she was groomed
and did not want to hurt anyone?
Saying she made a mistake.


Now saying she did know about the Manchester Bombing
when she spoke about it,
she said at that time she spoke before
she had no internet.

She is now in a better Syria Camp.

Last edited by arista; 15-09-2021 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:35 AM #68
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Last edited by arista; 15-09-2021 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:41 AM #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper View Post
She's still a relative kid though, bots. Regardless of anything else, she is still our responsibility.
She should have been her parents responsibility...who knows, maybe she was!
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:43 AM #70
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:43 AM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post
Yup, common sense and morality doesn't come into it. It's just all about appealing to people's lowest vindictive instincts. I'll keep saying it until the end of time but if this situation was reversed and we couldn't deport a terrorist supporter because their country stripped them of their citizenship then the same people who support it in Begum's case would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe was on the other foot.

Regardless of anything else, we can't strip someone of their citizenship, especially when their only other tie to a country is through a husband to which she was trafficked into a marriage in which she was basically a sex slave.

Let her come back, have her face a trial, have her serve out her sentence and try to deprogram any radicalism. Not taking responsibility is a childish response.
So a groomed and sex trafficked young girl should face trial for crimes whilst enduring all that..

That's a bit cruel and sadistic is it not?
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:47 AM #72
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She says she would go to a UK Prison
if a UK Judge tells her.
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Old 15-09-2021, 06:58 AM #73
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GMBHD itv have kept the Live link to Syria on
taking 2 commercial breaks
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Old 15-09-2021, 07:18 AM #74
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Bizarre interview. Still seems totally unrepentant tbh - said at one point she did 'nothing wrong' - and almost incapable of any emotion at all apart from self pity
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Old 15-09-2021, 07:30 AM #75
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i don't know what to make of her which is unusual as I usually get a feel for the person, but I think she is emotionally flat

Last edited by bitontheslide; 15-09-2021 at 07:31 AM.
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