[arista]

"even by Lord Archer, there's a blast from the past
and another one.
However he stated, Starmer was really clever
in how he put his questions yesterday.
Got this deceitful PM really rattled."


Yes Nice of Old Archer to go into the London
GMB HD itv studio
but he should have also stated:

Johnson PM will retain the power to exonerate
himself of any possible breach of the ministerial code

[Toy Soldier]

"But it was just the same for earlier generations!"

I wonder why people these days might need more help if they want to start gathering assets .

How do you argue with basic statistics? Baffling stuff.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Can I point out that the bit in bold is not mainly because parents have more money available to help now... it's mainly because it is so much harder to do it without help. Average house prices were something like 3 to 4x average income in the 80's, now they're 10x average income. 5% deposits were introduced because so few people could realistically save 10% of the huge asking prices. Parent=guarantor mortgages were developed because so many young people have had their credit ratings (which did not even exist in the same way 30 years ago) utterly destroyed by persistent debt.

You've taken the "more people get loans from their parents" and taken it as a given that the reason for that is there being more help abundantly available from parents - rather than considering that it might be because more people NEED that help and can't obtain enough finance without it.

I have done nothing of the sort I was pointing out the different forms of help available today, and was also disabusing the notion that the bank of Mum and Dad is a fantasy

[Amy Jade]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was talking about buying houses with my Mum yesterday. When she and my Dad married they lived with my Great Grandmother for a few years. They were both in fairly low paid jobs and didn't actually own a house until they retired, like many working class people of their generation. They did save for a deposit at one time and went without every luxury to do so.

That's what we did, went without but I admit since it's off the radar I've been spending obnoxiously but I am putting it down to cheering myself up atm

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I have done nothing of the sort I was pointing out the different forms of help available today, and was also disabusing the notion that the bank of Mum and Dad is a fantasy

Originally Posted by Cherie

the other thing more prevalent now is the bank of Mum and Dad

there was no bank back in the day ...sigh

kids now benefit from their parents buying their properties either in their lifetime or when the parents sadly die

You were heavily implying that things are easier for people today because they have access to "the bank of mum and dad" suggesting it as a "perk" that people in the past "had to do without", rather than framing it as (more accurately) a sad reflection of the fact that it's actually much harder for hardworking adults to have the things previous generations did without relying on family to help them get there.

You added the "sigh", you called it "benefitting", the meaning of the post is pretty clear? Why would you say "We didn't have to rely on parents to help us out back in the day ... sigh". You framed it - quite clearly - as a disadvantage for previous generations but unfortunately the statistics just don't back up the "sigh". It was worse for people in the mid-00's at the peak of the housing bubble but we're quicly getting back there again. Other than that? The cost of a house relative to income has more than doubled since the 90's. Sigh.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You were heavily implying that things are easier for people today because they have access to "the bank of mum and dad" suggesting it as a "perk" that people in the past "had to do without", rather than framing it as (more accurately) a sad reflection of the fact that it's actually much harder for hardworking adults to have the things previous generations did without relying on family to help them get there.

You added the "sigh", you called it "benefitting", the meaning of the post is pretty clear? Why would you say "We didn't have to rely on parents to help us out back in the day ... sigh". You framed it - quite clearly - as a disadvantage for previous generations but unfortunately the statistics just don't back up the "sigh". It was worse for people in the mid-00's at the peak of the housing bubble but we're quicly getting back there again. Other than that? The cost of a house relative to income has more than doubled since the 90's. Sigh.

I am not implying anything, I am stating there was no help back in the day,...fact

There is help today fact

yes house prices are out of control in some areas, but there are still affordable homes out there

low interest rates and a 25 year term anyone who can get their foot on the ladder by whatever means would be crazy not to, paying rent is dead money

so I take my hat off to Amy and her boyfriend, yes they have had a set back but they will get there

bowing out of this now because as per I am being told what I think

[bitontheslide]

in the 80's when i bought my first house, i had to save like crazy, take any overtime that was offered to scrape a deposit together. We didn't have the schemes available to help purchases in those days. Then, you had to serve your time with a building society, put any spare cash their way until they deemed you could get on the property ladder. People face different challenges at different times, but they are challenges just the same

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

in the 80's when i bought my first house, i had to save like crazy, take any overtime that was offered to scrape a deposit together. We didn't have the schemes available to help purchases in those days. Then, you had to serve your time with a building society, put any spare cash their way until they deemed you could get on the property ladder. People face different challenges at different times, but they are challenges just the same

we rented out our spare room for the first few years, didn't particularly want to do that but it was a means to an end

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

in the 80's when i bought my first house, i had to save like crazy, take any overtime that was offered to scrape a deposit together. We didn't have the schemes available to help purchases in those days. Then, you had to serve your time with a building society, put any spare cash their way until they deemed you could get on the property ladder. People face different challenges at different times, but they are challenges just the same

They are not just the same house prices relative to income have more than doubled. These are facts and figures, I simply have no idea how people are managing to look at them and say "nah". There's a graph, bots. Have a peek?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I am not implying anything, I am stating there was no help back in the day,...fact

I'd believe you if you'd left out the "sigh". Worth considering in future if you're trying not to tip your hand, maybe.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I'd believe you if you'd left out the "sigh". Worth considering in future if you're trying not to tip your hand, maybe.

sigh...

[Ammi]

...surely it’s fair to say that each generation faces their own problems/financially and otherwise...there is no ‘easier or harder’ because ‘lifetime building’ is a difficult thing for everyone or most people...in modern times, younger people will face ‘unchartered territory’ type stuff and whether there is help for them won’t be a black or white thing either, it’ll be individual and dependant on other things in their lives...back in the day, other generations will have faced ‘unchartered’ because there wouldn’t be progression if there wasn’t new challenges with each generation...and there would have been some supports for some back in the day and not so much for others...

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They are not just the same house prices relative to income have more than doubled. These are facts and figures, I simply have no idea how people are managing to look at them and say "nah". There's a graph, bots. Have a peek?

sorry but thats bollocks. House prices vary dramatically across the country. There are still places where property can be purchased for a song. If the aim is to get on the property ladder, it's still perfectly possible

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

sorry but thats bollocks. House prices vary dramatically across the country. There are still places where property can be purchased for a song. If the aim is to get on the property ladder, it's still perfectly possible

...it would also I think have to be considered whether cheaper housing areas would be linked to little employment in that area because that wouldn’t be problem solving to have a property/mortgage and struggle for employment...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

sorry but thats bollocks. House prices vary dramatically across the country. There are still places where property can be purchased for a song. If the aim is to get on the property ladder, it's still perfectly possible

They do vary dramatically across the country - in London and some other pricey areas the index is up to 10+ instead of just 6+. There are very few areas where it's less than 5+ compared to the 80's where it was sitting at around 3. It's increased dramatically country wide. Unless you mean by "some areas", deprived areas that have become over-run with drugs and violence leading to rapid devaluation of property? Perfect for the starter family home .

No one said it's "impossible" but the evidence for it being harder is concrete and staggering. The numbers are there, the figures are there, the shortage of housing stock is well documented, there are record numbers of families stuck in private rentals year-on-year and it's not through choice so ... ?

[arista]

LBC Left Winger is Live
going Potty about John Lewis asking is it not posh?

All week he is wasting his show
on Curtains?

[arista]

[In a bombshell move, the Electoral Commission
yesterday opened a formal investigation
into the funding of the lavish refurbishment
of the couple's official flat. Pictured: A design by Lulu Lytle,
who is believed to have carried out the refurbishment]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...at-refurb.html

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

[In a bombshell move, the Electoral Commission
yesterday opened a formal investigation
into the funding of the lavish refurbishment
of the couple's official flat. Pictured: A design by Lulu Lytle,
who is believed to have carried out the refurbishment]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...at-refurb.html

is that an example of her work, or the actual thing, its giving me a headache looking at it

[arista]

At Last Live on LBC
the Left Winger is now debating

Johnson PM will retain the power to exonerate
himself of any possible breach of the ministerial code

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

is that an example of her work, or the actual thing, its giving me a headache looking at it

Example
Not their Downing St.
flat.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by arista

Example
Not their Downing St.
flat.

So that picture is not actually what he's had done at the flat arista,is that right ? because as Cherie said it's headache inducing,lol, far too gaudy for my taste.

[bitontheslide]

it would be like living inside a rainbow

[LeatherTrumpet]

This their actual flat after the refurb - the Daily Mail revealed it yesterday

Spoiler:

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Cherie

is that an example of her work, or the actual thing, its giving me a headache looking at it

I seriously couldn't relax in that room....

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Such a generalisation Cherie.

In the late 80’s My wife’s parents were helped to buy their first home by both of their sets of parents in their early 20’s and traded up and up through the property booms of the 90's and early 00’s.

In 1983 my own maternal grandmother sold my parents her 4 bedroom house at a fraction of market value when my sister was born (they were in their mid 20’s), asking only the cost of the one-bed bungalow she was moving to.

My parents got divorced and sold up everything, my mum is already dead and my dad has no solo assets left and a much younger wife so I’ll get nowt when he does die.

My wife’s parents are only 15 years older than me so we're likely to be pushing retirement by the time we inherit anything from that side.

Yes we’re doing well at this point but literally every penny is ours. To suggest that “the bank of mum and dad” is new and available to all, or that it didn’t exist for anyone in the 80’s, is just not true. We were extremely poor in our early to mid 20’s and got no help at all. Both of our sets of parents got heaps of help.