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Old 12-05-2021, 09:24 AM #201
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….I am confused about this and it being part of a new law when much if not all of it was already law…CCTV in slaughterhouses were …but sadly those laws get disregarded as we sometimes see…and battery cages were banned for quite a few years…?..was this all part of EU laws that we’ve been part of anyway but now they have to be made law again because of Brexit…?…I’m not really understanding fully….

…but though, increase in prison time is a good thing and (…may..)…be more of a deterrent to not observing law….

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Old 12-05-2021, 09:32 AM #202
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…it is being reported that the ban on conversion therapy is not quite as stated in the speech…as in it has been in consultation period before and for a long time and will still have consultation period to consider religious beliefs etc …


..Edit:…it was apparently 2018 and Theresa May’s government who promised to ban conversion therapy…it’s been in consultation period since then and now another consultation period will begin…

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Old 12-05-2021, 11:41 AM #203
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Originally Posted by Dezzy View Post

You were making excuses for Boris and you were focused on other countries just so you could make out that we were doing well in comparison which glosses over our failures to handle the pandemic well when it came to lost lives that could have been saved with pre-emptive action that this government chose not to do.

Again, for the 4th or 5th time in this topic you try the 'I know you are, but what am I?' tactic and it fails like it did before because you're just projecting your own endless failures onto me. You're the one with the questionable reading capabilities and the overactive imagination, as evidenced by the fact you tried to make out that I wanted people to die, while I said you were glossing over the losses by focusing on the failures of other countries which do not make our failures lesser in comparison. It's not that hard to grasp, do better.
I'm not glossing over any losses, our losses were devastating and tragic and so were those the world over. To me, I look at the pandemic as to how it was/is affecting the world as a whole, not just us.
IMO comparisons are valid because that is how you judge any performance. If in most other countries the leaders had had great success in handling it and the UK hadn’t, then harsh criticism of Boris would be certainly justified. If most other countries leaders were having great vaccine success, and we weren’t, ditto.

But from the start, we were all in the same boat. Mistakes were made, bad decisions were made, lessons were learned along the way. The UK took chances with the vaccine orders before they knew if they would even work, that too could have been a big mistake, it turned out wonderfully well.
That’s how I view it, and I’m sorry if you don’t like it. I’m not going to follow your strict posting criteria to 'teach' me how you want me to respond, no matter how many times you hope for a different result. I'll respond as me, the way I choose to.
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Old 12-05-2021, 11:58 AM #204
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I have to take major issue with those advocating the Labour Party split.
To quote Mrs Thatcher as she once said on a EU issue.
I'd echo her NO, NO, NO.

Maybe from my more suspicious mind, that suggestion comes from either happily identifiable or closet hard-line Con supporters.
Who vote Conservative.
Who know any split would MORE likely ensure endless Con rule.
As in the 80s the great gift to the Cons and Thatcher then, who went on to go from a 43 overall majority to a 144 one and 14 years of further power on top of the 4 years they'd already had.

In this ridiculous and outdated election system..
I think, the Cons will always get on or just above 30% of votes in elections.
The Labour party unlikely to fall under 25% in elections.

There's then the rest of voters who at times float between the 2 parties.
Giving one on or just above 40% with the other in the 30s as a percentage.

So for those advocating the Labour Party split into 2 parties.
They know fine well.
When under this archaic election system, the vote would then swing towards a more social conscience and genuine caring policy making.
That with now 2 parties from the one Labour one.

You'd get let's say anything from 15 to 20 % for one and around 20 to 25% for the other.
Leaving the Cons, in the 30% ranges therefore ensuring under this electoral system.
Only the Cons benefit.

Now, if we had PR the split to 2 Parties makes more sense as the possible usual Labour vote in a favourable election, would be proportionally recognised in numbers of seats too.

No, absolutely no to Labour splitting again as in the 80s to suit Con supporters.
No way.
Labour is a broad church, we do disagree in it, we argue with each other, we make life hard for our leaders.
We do though come together on vital issues to remove things like heartless humiliation of the weakest in society, to the sick, disabled and all vulnerable.
Something those hard- line Con supporters don't care one bit as to what policies their Con government inflicts on them.

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Old 12-05-2021, 12:02 PM #205
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…only to add one post…


…tbf, we not only watched ourselves in horror at Italy but they begged us to listen as Boris delayed and didn’t take heed…that was after the not taking heed in preparing with PPE protection that came before…

…these are just some of the things that contributed to the huge loss of life we have …no amount of preparing well for the vaccine is ever going to change that and change the accountability because that goes to protect the lives we have now, not those who are lost…we also don’t compare to every country either because we’re an island and yet we continued and continued and continued with international travel…

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...takes-19708170


…our government actions and reactions cannot be applied as any generic…’this was a first time thing’ …because this was not without opportunities to be more prepared to preserve life and yet failed to do so in so many different ways…this isn’t the opinion of ‘Labour’ of Labour supporters either, it’s the opinion of other countries of a huge U.K. COVID failure in loss of life….it’s very interesting to post on other forums with mainly International members and see their absolutely correct outlook of how badly our government and Boris has failed…and yeah, I’m sure that many families with losses will echo that as every single one of us also would…

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Old 12-05-2021, 01:02 PM #206
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Old 12-05-2021, 01:39 PM #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammi View Post
…only to add one post…


…tbf, we not only watched ourselves in horror at Italy but they begged us to listen as Boris delayed and didn’t take heed…that was after the not taking heed in preparing with PPE protection that came before…

…these are just some of the things that contributed to the huge loss of life we have …no amount of preparing well for the vaccine is ever going to change that and change the accountability because that goes to protect the lives we have now, not those who are lost…we also don’t compare to every country either because we’re an island and yet we continued and continued and continued with international travel…

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...takes-19708170


…our government actions and reactions cannot be applied as any generic…’this was a first time thing’ …because this was not without opportunities to be more prepared to preserve life and yet failed to do so in so many different ways…this isn’t the opinion of ‘Labour’ of Labour supporters either, it’s the opinion of other countries of a huge U.K. COVID failure in loss of life….it’s very interesting to post on other forums with mainly International members and see their absolutely correct outlook of how badly our government and Boris has failed…and yeah, I’m sure that many families with losses will echo that as every single one of us also would…
Well a lot depends on what you chose to read. The majority of countries failed inevitably against an invisible enemy and saying our country didn't fail as much as yours does no good.
Boris has ordered a public inquiry into the Gov response to the pandemic and what lessons are to be learned. The question is did he listen to the advice of the experts or deliberately ignore them, the former is my belief at present. What are the reasons that he didn’t act quickly enough? Nicola Sturgeon said early on that the speed with which the virus tore through the population certainly wasn’t expected.
We don’t know all the ins and outs of what went on and until we do, I’ll not accuse one man, entirely on his own, PM or not, of being solely responsible for very many deaths.
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Old 12-05-2021, 01:59 PM #208
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Well the easiest way to solve this problem would be to provide those who can prove they can't afford a photo id (being on benefits perhaps) a free one. I don't see many objections. Then there can be no doubt.
I've already mentioned the issues with this in a previous post, so I'm just gonna quote that here to save time.

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No.

Let's say this free voter ID card is a thing for people who don't have other forms of photo ID, how many hoops will a person have to jump through to get one? Because they won't send you one automatically because it's a photo ID, so a person with a Driver's Licence or a paid form of ID instantly has an advantage over someone who doesn't.

It's no different to the voter suppression taking place in Georgia where for future votes, they are banning giving people food or drink while they wait in line.... in Georgia weather... for potentially hours... That's designed to make it harder for people to vote, thus suppressing certain people from voting.

If you add restrictions or make voting harder for people to do in any way, that has the effect of voting suppression.

The problem is that people won't realistically get an automatic voter ID like they currently get a voting slip ahead of a vote. They'll have to likely pursue getting one when the current process is wholly automatic. You get a slip, you can take it with you, easy.

When you add extra restrictions to the right to vote, it won't increase votes, it'll just decrease votes from certain demographics and that is the intended affect here.
You can guarantee the process to get one of these free IDs won't be simple or quick, because the only reason to add extra barriers to voting like this one is to make it difficult for certain people to vote. No matter how you cut it, it's voter suppression and if we weren't such a spineless country, we would be up in arms about it but we just accept it, 'cus it's the tories. It's pathetic.
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Old 12-05-2021, 02:22 PM #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammi View Post
…only to add one post…


…tbf, we not only watched ourselves in horror at Italy but they begged us to listen as Boris delayed and didn’t take heed…that was after the not taking heed in preparing with PPE protection that came before…

…these are just some of the things that contributed to the huge loss of life we have …no amount of preparing well for the vaccine is ever going to change that and change the accountability because that goes to protect the lives we have now, not those who are lost…we also don’t compare to every country either because we’re an island and yet we continued and continued and continued with international travel…

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news...takes-19708170


…our government actions and reactions cannot be applied as any generic…’this was a first time thing’ …because this was not without opportunities to be more prepared to preserve life and yet failed to do so in so many different ways…this isn’t the opinion of ‘Labour’ of Labour supporters either, it’s the opinion of other countries of a huge U.K. COVID failure in loss of life….it’s very interesting to post on other forums with mainly International members and see their absolutely correct outlook of how badly our government and Boris has failed…and yeah, I’m sure that many families with losses will echo that as every single one of us also would…

He's being pushed Ammi all ways as to holding a public inquiry.
You are right in your last lines though not that all would very sadly.

There are many groups longing to reveal their evidence on the dangerous and loss of life incurring mess of handling this pandemic by this pathetic PM.

He now says a public inquiry is at least a year off to next Spring, just to begin!!!!
He is procrastinating even on something as vital as that.

This is in my view yes, to ensure the findings of the inquiry cannot be concluded and made known until AFTER the next general election..
I think he's planning a Spring/ Summer or Autumn election in 2023.
To ensure he hasn't to face questioning on the inquiry, which would be still ongoing.
Plus he'd not have any conclusions of the inquiry until after the election.

There is only one thing this PM has that as PM he is adept at.
That is pure dangerous deceit.
Absolutely sickening that enough voters still fall for his clumsy bumbling act.
Unbelievable.
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Old 12-05-2021, 08:35 PM #210
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There’s no question at all that it’s a form of voter suppression; there is no indication that there’s anything wrong with the current voting system (other than the inherent flaws of FOTP, but not with the votes themselves) and thus there’s no valid reasoning behind suddenly requiring photo ID.

If an election showed real evidence of widespread fraud then you might understand wanting more security around voting. But that hasn’t happened. So it’s being done for other reasons. That simple.

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Old 12-05-2021, 08:38 PM #211
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There’s no question at all that it’s a form of voter suppression; there is no indication that there’s anything wrong with the current voting system (other than the inherent flaws of FOTP, but not with the votes themselves) and thus there’s no valid reasoning behind suddenly requiring photo ID.

If an election showed real evidence of widespread fraud then you might understand wanting more security around voting. But that hasn’t happened. So it’s being done for other reasons. That simple.

The fraud side imo, had only not been done because the loop hole wssnt widely known.

It is now, and it is now open for lawyers to make vast amounts of money on prosecution cases, but boris has now attempted to block this by introducing this scheme that will be needed in years to come if it isnt introduced now.

It's called progression.

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Old 12-05-2021, 08:45 PM #212
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anyone can go in and say i live at xyz and vote

we have NO IDEA how much fraud goes on at mo

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Old 12-05-2021, 08:48 PM #213
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anyone can go in and say i live at xyz and vote

we have NO IDEA how much fraud goes on at mo
The conservatives probably proved how it can be done by fraudulently obtaining hartlepool.

I'm joking but its probably true.
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Old 12-05-2021, 09:32 PM #214
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There’s no question at all that it’s a form of voter suppression; there is no indication that there’s anything wrong with the current voting system (other than the inherent flaws of FOTP, but not with the votes themselves) and thus there’s no valid reasoning behind suddenly requiring photo ID.

If an election showed real evidence of widespread fraud then you might understand wanting more security around voting. But that hasn’t happened. So it’s being done for other reasons. That simple.

It's a pathetic idea.
I believe on Peston tonight, former Con Scottish leader, Ruth Davidson, also thinks it's ridiculous or a word to that effect.

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Old 13-05-2021, 06:23 AM #215
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He's being pushed Ammi all ways as to holding a public inquiry.
You are right in your last lines though not that all would very sadly.

There are many groups longing to reveal their evidence on the dangerous and loss of life incurring mess of handling this pandemic by this pathetic PM.

He now says a public inquiry is at least a year off to next Spring, just to begin!!!!
He is procrastinating even on something as vital as that.

This is in my view yes, to ensure the findings of the inquiry cannot be concluded and made known until AFTER the next general election..
I think he's planning a Spring/ Summer or Autumn election in 2023.
To ensure he hasn't to face questioning on the inquiry, which would be still ongoing.
Plus he'd not have any conclusions of the inquiry until after the election.

There is only one thing this PM has that as PM he is adept at.
That is pure dangerous deceit.
Absolutely sickening that enough voters still fall for his clumsy bumbling act.
Unbelievable.
…of course, the inquiry is being called for…it’s not something he wants and he has the power to postpone it so he does…he can postpone/suspend parliament, he can postpone/suspend the inquiry to his own convenience…postpone/suspend is something he excels at so I find it all completely believable, Joey…this is the man who even before he became leader, held Donald Trump as a figure of admiration and inspiration…it’s all a dishonest game of tactics and ego while he has delayed actions against all advice at the cost of many lives and the families losing those lives because the one thing that defied his postponement/suspension was COVID…but we both know, Joey…that there will never be any accountability….it doesn’t in any way balance any loss of life through inaction who will never see their vaccination but we did though have many heroes worthy of that name through all of this….
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Old 13-05-2021, 06:46 AM #216
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…of course, the inquiry is being called for…it’s not something he wants and he has the power to postpone it so he does…he can postpone/suspend parliament, he can postpone/suspend the inquiry to his own convenience…postpone/suspend is something he excels at so I find it all completely believable, Joey…this is the man who even before he became leader, held Donald Trump as a figure of admiration and inspiration…it’s all a dishonest game of tactics and ego while he has delayed actions against all advice at the cost of many lives and the families losing those lives because the one thing that defied his postponement/suspension was COVID…but we both know, Joey…that there will never be any accountability….it doesn’t in any way balance any loss of life through inaction who will never see their vaccination but we did though have many heroes worthy of that name through all of this….
I am infuriated Ammi.

His procrastination on this inquiry, is as bad and unforgivable as his procrastination in dealing with the pandemic.

It's an insult, a nothing but a slap in the face to those heavily hurt and aggrieved families of lost loved ones.
Who have singly at first, I'm one of them,I and my Mother, who sought to meet with him as to why things were allowed to happen to hasten loss of life.

Then the singularly separate bereaved families came together, and there are now groups of them.
Who all acted quickly and got quickly medical facts along with other evidence before anything could be tampered with.

He.may well have met with family bereaved of his own friends or MPs.
He has with deceit stated he's met with other families.

He has never met with those I've said above, in fact he's REFUSED to and more than once too.
His heartless supporters won't care about that but supporting him on this makes them more heartless in my opinion, sorry to say.

Con MPs are threatened if they vote against him, he demonstrated what he'd do even to a most senior Con elder, Kenneth Clarke, in ,2019.

I and other thousands of others of those from really aggrieved families have been left waiting so long now for this inquiry to get our evidence presented to it.

Now he shockingly and insultingly says you have to wait another whole year.

So he can cut and run before the inquiry delivers it's findings by holding an election before it does.
With no questioning in the campaign, because as I said the inquiry still ongoing at the time.

A political deceiver and dangerous political liar is ALL I can say about this disgraceful Prime Minister.

Unforgivable 100%

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Old 13-05-2021, 07:35 AM #217
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:16 AM #218
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I can't stand boris, but from a voter perspective he is doing very nicely, moaning about him isn't going to win labour an election
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:26 AM #219
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…when answerability for overwhelming life loss is moaning, that’s just not something I can understand at all…nothing will win Labour an election in any up and coming…(…IMO…)…discussing Boris’ failures as a leader isn’t a Labour v Conservative thing…it’s a worldwide thing and it’s a very necessary thing…and the absolute very least that those in grief deserve…
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:30 AM #220
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I can't stand boris, but from a voter perspective he is doing very nicely, moaning about him isn't going to win labour an election
So matter what pain or insult Johnson inflicts on people we just have to say well done Boris to suit you and hard-line Con voters.

Well not me, not ever.

I doubt Labour would win an election either if we NEVER moaned at him.
Just to please you and other Con supporters.
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:32 AM #221
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…when answerability for overwhelming life loss is moaning, that’s just not something I can understand at all…nothing will win Labour an election in any up and coming…(…IMO…)…discussing Boris’ failures as a leader isn’t a Labour v Conservative thing…it’s a worldwide thing and it’s a very necessary thing…and the absolute very least that those in grief deserve…
Nor me Ammi, it's grossly insulting.
As is the lengths Cons will do to try to protect and stop criticism of the odious creep.
Sorry for strong words but if he ever dared meet me and my family I'd tell him that to his face.
Unbelievable.
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:49 AM #222
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Originally Posted by joeysteele View Post
So matter what pain or insult Johnson inflicts on people we just have to say well done Boris to suit you and hard-line Con voters.

Well not me, not ever.

I doubt Labour would win an election either if we NEVER moaned at him.
Just to please you and other Con supporters.
ok, so given i just said i can't stand boris, you reply with that? I see a fixation here that isnt based on reality
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Old 13-05-2021, 08:58 AM #223
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ok, so given i just said i can't stand boris, you reply with that? I see a fixation here that isnt based on reality
I can't stand Johnson and will never make excuses for him.
Not on this.
Not a chance, never.
I wouldn't even try to IF I really couldn't stand him, wouldn't even want to.

See what you like, I say what my and my family and multi thousands from other unnecessary lost loved ones families are thinking and saying.

Their views more important to me than Johnson and his supporters.

I make no apologies for fighting against Johnson for myself, my family, and helping those other aggrieved families desperately seeking justice for their cruelly lost loved ones unnecessarily.
I don't and never will.

Last edited by joeysteele; 13-05-2021 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 13-05-2021, 09:18 AM #224
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Old 14-05-2021, 02:13 AM #225
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First Question
BBC1HD Question Time
"What is the Point of the Labour Party"

Yes LT.
Your Thread is very Relevant.
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