[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Honestly, the only chance of a sea change is through the passing of time and the end of the older generations. We can hope the next generations will be better, but I don't have much capacity for hope these days, in political matters.

Yes Olders Changing their Votes.

[joeysteele]

I don't think Labour is dead at all.
I wouldn't be in it if I thought that.

I'll do all I can as a member to ensure despite our wide differences as members we keep this grand coalition together.

Or we are doomed to only be the opposition of the UK, for as long as the UK still exists that is.

I concede, it is always the case that the Cons are the natural party of government.
Unfortunately.

There's a long way to go before writing off the Party.
To be a broken record, there is a way, in my view to unite the majority of the party.
Plus also have the full backing of every other UK party except for the Cons.
That is moves are made to have the Party conference adopt electoral reform and bring in PR.
No referenda, just bring it in the election after the next.

It can be done, and while it will remove any likelihood of Labour governing alone with a majority after 2028/29.
It will also ensure never again can the Cons govern with overall majorities on only 42% of the votes cast.

It will then be for Labour to forge alliances with Parties more to the left of centre.
Governing with full cooperation of Parliament and majority support of the people.

The Cons and they're supporters would be near in frenzied panic.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Scarlett.

The problems with Labour run far too deep, sure they could find a great popular PM with someone like Andy Burnham, but the problem would be the rest of the party is still fractured and rotten.

The Tories are of course, rotten to the core too, but they at least keep up appearances that everything is okay behind the scenes - until a leader leaves, then its knives out

Tories don't fool me , Boris is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. He's a bumbling idiot.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Olders Changing their Votes.

I don't think that will ever happen, for the most part. There's a lot of people willing to vote on the issues, but too many simply vote out of party loyalty. The only chance of change would be with the natural passing of the older generations, and rise of the younger ones.

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Tories don't fool me , Boris is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. He's a bumbling idiot.

Yep, they're a worse party than Labour behind the scenes, they're just masters of spin, and PR, unlike Labour

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Tories don't fool me , Boris is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. He's a bumbling idiot.

I know it makes people feel better to say that but he is the PM and just had an amazing set of election results

to ignore that and just say he is rubbish is pretty futile and its part of the problem the left have right now

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I know it makes people feel better to say that but he is the PM and just had an amazing set of election results

to ignore that and just say he is rubbish is pretty futile and its part of the problem the left have right now

Tony Blair had three general elections worth of amazing results, did that make him a great PM?

The problem isn't with the left, it's that Labour is an ailing party that has forgotten who they stand for.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

I know it makes people feel better to say that but he is the PM and just had an amazing set of election results

to ignore that and just say he is rubbish is pretty futile and its part of the problem the left have right now

He is rubbish. Saying "Oh the election results" just makes it look worse, not better.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't think that will ever happen, for the most part. There's a lot of people willing to vote on the issues, but too many simply vote out of party loyalty. The only chance of change would be with the natural passing of the older generations, and rise of the younger ones.

Could take 20 years

[GoldHeart]

We just need to remind ourselves of how Boris handled the Covid outbreak, to see just what a complete waste of space he is.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

He is rubbish. Saying "Oh the election results" just makes it look worse, not better.

What he has a rubbish career? no

He has a rubbish job - no

He is rubbish at his job - judge him at the ballot-box

That may be your opinion but for the majority in your country they simply disagree with you and have done for many, many years

[bitontheslide]

the only reason the tories are in power is because there is no viable alternative. We need an electable alternative, in any form now quite frankly.

At some point labour will have to come to terms with the reality that they just represent too many disparate views. It has to have cohesive policies that everyone in the party can get behind and that are both realistic and attractive to the voter

[Tom4784]

Winning an election doesn't make someone a good PM, it just means they fooled enough people into voting for them. Tony Blair, David Cameron, Theresa May, Boris. All were terrible and they all won at least one election. I do have some sympathy for May though, since it's clear she was just there to take the scorn of the public for the deal they'd come up with just so Boris could swoop in with a similar deal at the last minute and be treated like a hero for it.

Boris has been a terrible PM, people's hero worship of him is misplaced and concerning.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

What he has a rubbish career? no

He has a rubbish job - no

He is rubbish at his job - judge him at the ballot-box

That may be your opinion but for the majority in your country they simply disagree with you and have done for many, many years

Again, illustrating how the vast majority of people can't see the wood for the trees is not making it look better.

I don't give a tinkers toss who disagrees.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Again, illustrating how the vast majority of people can't see the wood for the trees is not making it look better.

I don't give a tinkers toss who disagrees.

Yes but you may as well say that Queen are a rubbish group because you dont like them even though most people think they are great by that logic

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes but you may as well say that Queen are a rubbish group because you dont like them even though most people think they are great by that logic

"Boris has lots of followers so dat means very good and great and your opinion on him is wrong"

No love.

[bitontheslide]

the point being that if the majority of the country thought queen were crap, they wouldnt have been successful. I never liked queen, but i was always in the minority.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

the point being that if the majority of the country thought queen were crap, they wouldnt have been successful. I never liked queen, but i was always in the minority.

No, the point is that the opinion of that majority had no bearing on your opinion of Queen. Nor do the Con voters have any bearing on mine.

The idea that "crap" can't be popular is false.

History is littered with crap leaders voted in by a blind public.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

We just need to remind ourselves of how Boris handled the Covid outbreak, to see just what a complete waste of space he is.

'But he did his best!' Bootlickers all around the UK.

It doesn't matter what he does, tory supporters will line up for a chance to suck on his ring.