[arista]

[BBC Text:
A story about assaults faced by police, with the paper saying there
were 20,000 such incidents during the pandemic.
"Police are nation's 'punch bag'" is the headline, based on
a quote by West Yorkshire Police Chief Constable John Robins.]

[arista]

[arista]

[LaLaLand]

I agree.

[arista]

Its a shame
The Home Secretary
is not understanding the problems.

[Cherie]

It’s a disgrace really, they were front line workers in the pandemic

[Oliver_W]

All essential keyworkers are treated like crap by the media and the populace, and especially by the government...

[Cherie]

what I really don't understand is that the whole of the NHS will be rewarded, some of these are managers and administrators, physios, OTs, who worked from home throughout the pandemic, how difficult would it be to single out those who actually were on the front line and give them a decent pay rise of between 3% and 10% depending on pay grade and give the rest a nominal rise like everyone else in the public sector.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

what I really don't understand is that the whole of the NHS will be rewarded, some of these are managers and administrators, physios, OTs, who worked from home throughout the pandemic, how difficult would it be to single out those who actually were on the front line and give them a decent pay rise of between 3% and 10% depending on pay grade and give the rest a nominal rise like everyone else in the public sector.

The NHS works on pay bands so… they’d have to completely restructure the entire NHS salary system. “Extremely difficult” is the answer.

[Ammi]

…it’s the same in education, any one ‘band’ has to have equality of salary …over the recent years it’s tended to be less about experience in staff and more about a lower band so that the salaries are kept as low as possible…

[Ammi]

…sign of the times sadly…as the saying goes…

[michael21]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It’s a disgrace really, they were front line workers in the pandemic

How come you say were pandemic is never going to end and the police are still on the front line

[michael21]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…sign of the times sadly…as the saying goes…

I only no one person that says that tbf I only no two person

[Nicky91]

number 1 front line workers for me are the NHS


or how many covid patients have the police force treated, oh wait




that said, police deserve bonusses too for all their hard work against those vile anti-lockdown, anti-vaxxer protesters

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by michael21

How come you say were pandemic is never going to end and the police are still on the front line

what? I never said the pandemic was never going to end, what I said was we would never eradicate Covid 19 same as the other 4 Corona viruses we live with , of course the police are on the front line they deal with the public every day, do you think they zoom criminals

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

number 1 front line workers for me are the NHS


or how many covid patients have the police force treated, oh wait




that said, police deserve bonusses too for all their hard work against those vile anti-lockdown, anti-vaxxer protesters

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Ammi

…it’s the same in education, any one ‘band’ has to have equality of salary …over the recent years it’s tended to be less about experience in staff and more about a lower band so that the salaries are kept as low as possible…

Me and my wife were talking about this re: the NHS the other day actually... once you get to band 7+ those are ward management/service management grades, so realistically the on-ward nurses doing most of the medical procedures etc. will often be maxed out at "top of band 5"... whether they've been a nurse for 5 years or 20 years. There should be SOME way to recognise that level of experience in the pay structure, but there isn't currently, the only way to increase salary after 5 years on a band is to get a job the next band up... and that usually means a change of role/type of work that not everyone wants. And like I said, at 7+ it generally means being less hands-on... definitely in a hospital setting anyway (lots of band 7 community roles with plenty of patient contact). Not everyone wants that but where's the incentive to retain that vast experience on the wards?

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Cherie

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

fair enough

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The NHS works on pay bands so… they’d have to completely restructure the entire NHS salary system. “Extremely difficult” is the answer.

Every public service works in pay bands

it would not be extremely difficult at all, first filter out the administrative grades who did not go into work, then the physios they are still working on Zoom, etc

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

I actually have to agree with this.

I think supermarket staff have just been forgotten and treated shabbily near all through.

As for this new or old revamped planning re crime and policing.

All this Home secretary seems to do is pile more work and pressures on the Police.
While not really increasing the numbers nor proper renumeration for all their efforts too.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Every public service works in pay bands

it would not be extremely difficult at all, first filter out the administrative grades who did not go into work, then the physios they are still working on Zoom, etc

But the salary is based on the band... you can't increase the salary of a band 5 front-line nurse without increasing the salary of a band 5 physio. You'd have to separate it into completely new salary scales. I'm not saying that's a bad idea entirely, I don't think the banding system works brilliantly a lot of the time e.g. if Nurses campaign for better Nurse pay... they are in fact asking for changes to the pay bands and so better pay across the entire NHS... many more staff, and thus a much bigger battle... I'm just saying it's not simple at all. Easy enough to selectively give one-off bonuses but to do "selective" permanent pay increases you'd need to do away with the current pay band system, and even if it would be a good idea, it certainly wouldn't be easy or simple.

[arista]

Johnson PM is Live today
talking about the Police.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

But the salary is based on the band... you can't increase the salary of a band 5 front-line nurse without increasing the salary of a band 5 physio. You'd have to separate it into completely new salary scales. I'm not saying that's a bad idea entirely, I don't think the banding system works brilliantly a lot of the time e.g. if Nurses campaign for better Nurse pay... they are in fact asking for changes to the pay bands and so better pay across the entire NHS... many more staff, and thus a much bigger battle... I'm just saying it's not simple at all. Easy enough to selectively give one-off bonuses but to do "selective" permanent pay increases you'd need to do away with the current pay band system, and even if it would be a good idea, it certainly wouldn't be easy or simple.

There is a away around it, we have pay relativity each year and even though we might be on the same band as someone else some get a one off payment if their performance has warranted it, that can be set to be given each year

I dont think 3% is enough for nurses, but is probably too much for admin staff and managers

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Me and my wife were talking about this re: the NHS the other day actually... once you get to band 7+ those are ward management/service management grades, so realistically the on-ward nurses doing most of the medical procedures etc. will often be maxed out at "top of band 5"... whether they've been a nurse for 5 years or 20 years. There should be SOME way to recognise that level of experience in the pay structure, but there isn't currently, the only way to increase salary after 5 years on a band is to get a job the next band up... and that usually means a change of role/type of work that not everyone wants. And like I said, at 7+ it generally means being less hands-on... definitely in a hospital setting anyway (lots of band 7 community roles with plenty of patient contact). Not everyone wants that but where's the incentive to retain that vast experience on the wards?

…in education, school size and school type …(…as in Primary or Upper…back in the day there was middle school as well but now it’s generally just primary and High School…)…would also be a factor and also the size of a school would factor….some of the out in the country schools are very tiny as stand alone sizes but in comparison to the larger ones which will have several hundred children on roll….the jobs are very difficult to compare like for like, aren’t they…?…and that’s why there have been so many varied pay bands and band points etc in the past…but the aim over the last few years is to equal them all…a year group teacher at one school to be paid the same as a year group teacher at another, regardless of any other factor …such as time served and experience etc…obviously the lowest pay grade is what the aim is……I mean having lots of NQT’s is excellent for ‘new blood’ and a school moving forward and being injected with new techniques etc…it does work well in some important aspects…


….hmmmmm, I’m not sure there is the same aim for recognition that there used to be just because recognition often means experience as you say…and experience often means a larger salary is being paid……and that’s not the aim, the aim is to reduce spending because the funding isn’t being made available or can’t be because it isn’t there….it’s a difficult one, though because it does give opportunities to newly trained staff as well so it keeps it moving and that has advantages…I guess what we’re finding more and more in Education…(…I’m not sure what your wife feels in the medical world…)…is that its less of a vocation than it used to be and often less of a long term career/forever career…

[michael21]

Originally Posted by Cherie

anyone who comes into constant contact with the public are front line

do you think the people who worked in supermarkets could stay home during the pandemic?

Yes it's call shelding