[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Redway

A lot of gay people (you’d see what I mean if you’d been a bit more exposed to people from different cultural backgrounds) still want to marry at their respective religious institutions for familial (or, again, cultural) reasons. That’s something I can sympathise with but I can also at least empathise with the church/mosque figures who refuse to marry them off.

I think your opinions about spirituality and how deeply-rooted it can be as far as familial works go (including marriage) is very Western-oriented so I don’t blame you for adopting that kind of approach. But know that your experiences aren’t the same as that of a lesbian Nigerian-Brit. who faces ostracisation from her community (more than you’d ever know) but is still brave enough to stand up for what she wants anyway. Or a gay Muslim lad who’d face deportation and rank abuse for coming out but still has respect for his religion. Those are things you can’t even begin to appreciate when you’re sat behind your screen presenting a holier-than-thou stance and obviously don’t have much real experience dealing with conflicted LGBT millennials from non-Western indigenous cultures.

This is where the real struggle lays in 2021 for the lgbtq.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by LaLaLand

It shouldn’t even be an issue this day in age.

There’s so much doom and gloom and horrific stuff going on every day in this world (religion included) that two people wanting to celebrate their love together, regardless of gender, and be happy should be celebrated.

Same goes for gay adoption, which is still unnecessarily taboo.

That idyllic world of acceptance doesn’t exist in many religious institutions though and it’s understandable.

[parmnion]

Originally Posted by Redway

That idyllic world of acceptance doesn’t exist in many religious institutions though and it’s understandable.

You mean homes really, not religious institutes.

[hijaxers]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You mean homes really, not religious institutes.

I totally get where you are coming from, all we can do is move forward and hope more people become more understanding and find a way to move themselves forward.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I have two good friends and both have a son and daughter and they are all gay has anyone else have any friends were more than one of their children are gay ?

As to gay marriage I’m all for it.

I’m not old enough to have friends with adult kids quite yet (in fact most of my friends with kids are still in the toddler/little kid phase whereas mine are 12 and 9) however, one of my best friends is gay, told his family at 18, then 5 years later out of the blue his older brother rocked up to a family gathering with a boyfriend. They’re now both married (to men).

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

A lot of gay people (you’d see what I mean if you’d been a bit more exposed to people from different cultural backgrounds) still want to marry at their respective religious institutions for familial (or, again, cultural) reasons. That’s something I can sympathise with but I can also at least empathise with the church/mosque figures who refuse to marry them off.

I think your opinions about spirituality and how deeply-rooted it can be as far as familial works go (including marriage) is very Western-oriented so I don’t blame you for adopting that kind of approach. But know that your experiences aren’t the same as that of a lesbian Nigerian-Brit. who faces ostracisation from her community (more than you’d ever know) but is still brave enough to stand up for what she wants anyway. Or a gay Muslim lad who’d face deportation and rank abuse for coming out but still has respect for his religion. Those are things you can’t even begin to appreciate when you’re sat behind your screen presenting a holier-than-thou stance and obviously don’t have much real experience dealing with conflicted LGBT millennials from non-Western indigenous cultures.

I understand that and actually I think you’re underestimating how low the acceptance in in many Christian church communities in the UK - and definitely the US. I think in the UK they’re less vocal about it, I had a “parent friend” (the friends you have while your kids are little and don’t keep in contact with after that) who was heavily involved in the church (evangelical, I think) and from everything I knew about her I’d have assumed her views on homosexuality were moderate. Until the conversation actually came up - and she declared that while she’d be friends with gay people, she would have to tell them they’re not going to heaven, and that they should “stop”. Also that she’d be “utterly devastated” if one of her kids was gay. I’ve since realised it’s a very common attitude in British churches, it’s just not announced as loudly.

And my hypothetical was in a world where I’m a mystical overlord who can shape reality at will, and that I’d ideally remove religion from all equations entirely… it’s not intended to be a pragmatic suggestion for the real world.

[parmnion]

In my home town, the only gay in the village plays the organ every sunday at our local protestant church.

[bitontheslide]

i think as long as people have a legal path to get the marital status they want, then the availability in each religious institution is a different thing all together. People can't get married in the catholic church for a multitude of reasons even although they are legally entitled, it's not confined to same sex or anything else

What I can't reconcile is wanting to be part of a religious institution that discriminates for whatever reason specifically against "you" I just wouldn't want to be associated with it if it were me

[Vicky.]

Should always be 'allowed' and always should have been, its mental to me that it was not. But I am not comfortable with forcing religious institutions to do it if they disagree. But I dont really understand why they would disagree. Yet, I am not religious so maybe wouldnt understand.

Fencesitting on the whole thing. Really. Aslong as there are many places that do do it..I dont see why we should force all to do it. Yet cannot understand the refusals personally. Thats complicated as **** really.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Should always be 'allowed' and always should have been, its mental to me that it was not. But I am not comfortable with forcing religious institutions to do it if they disagree. But I dont really understand why they would disagree. Yet, I am not religious so maybe wouldnt understand.

Fencesitting on the whole thing. Really.

Yeah I agree with TS opinions on it really about organised religions in general but yeah they discriminate for many reasons, for example you can't get married in a Catholic Church if you're divorced

[Redway]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You mean homes really, not religious institutes.

I mean both.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I understand that and actually I think you’re underestimating how low the acceptance in in many Christian church communities in the UK - and definitely the US. I think in the UK they’re less vocal about it, I had a “parent friend” (the friends you have while your kids are little and don’t keep in contact with after that) who was heavily involved in the church (evangelical, I think) and from everything I knew about her I’d have assumed her views on homosexuality were moderate. Until the conversation actually came up - and she declared that while she’d be friends with gay people, she would have to tell them they’re not going to heaven, and that they should “stop”. Also that she’d be “utterly devastated” if one of her kids was gay. I’ve since realised it’s a very common attitude in British churches, it’s just not announced as loudly.

And my hypothetical was in a world where I’m a mystical overlord who can shape reality at will, and that I’d ideally remove religion from all equations entirely… it’s not intended to be a pragmatic suggestion for the real world.

Trust me, I’m well aware that many (if not most) U.K. churches are against gay marriage. The thing is I wasn’t talking about just English churches.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Redway

Trust me, I’m well aware that many (if not most) U.K. churches are against gay marriage. The thing is I wasn’t talking about just English churches.

That doesn’t really matter if we’re talking about snapping all organised religion out of existence? Again, I’m not saying this is something that can actually happen, just a hypothetical.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That doesn’t really matter if we’re talking about snapping all organised religion out of existence? Again, I’m not saying this is something that can actually happen, just a hypothetical.

And I’m saying that traditional world religions (you might want to look up Buddhism and ATR) that aren’t generally associated with the West aren’t intrinsically homophobic. They aren’t now and never were, not in their pure form. Should those religions be wiped out as well?

[Glenn.]

The world would be a greater place without religion. I’ll agree that not all religions are discriminative and have idiotic followers who use their religion as a guise for their ignorant views but it should not have the power it has.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

The world would be a greater place without religion. I’ll agree that not all religions are discriminative and have idiotic followers who use their religion as a guise for their ignorant views but it should not have the power it has.

Yep, it's all about control with *most* of those religions, that and money making