[Crimson Dynamo]

Tiverton High School in Devon made the change to uniform policy without consulting parents or pupils



A secondary school has banned girls from wearing skirts in order to create a “more gender-neutral” uniform policy.

Parents of Tiverton High School (THS) students in Devon were informed on June 9 that the “modifications” to the school uniform would come into effect from September this year.

Pupils at the co-ed secondary school will have to ditch their skirts, which are currently permitted, and attend lessons wearing only trousers, with the exception of PE sessions.

Sammy Crook, the school's headmistress, said: “We will follow other secondary schools in implementing a more gender-neutral uniform policy.

“Parents/carers will be pleased to know that the majority of the uniform will remain as it is, with the exception that from September all students will be expected to wear trousers."

'Complete lack of democracy'


A number of parents expressed frustration after the announcement of the major change, which was decided without any prior consultation.

Among those angry about the lack of warning was Stephen Moakes, who said: "As a parent, I have concerns...These have been made without any consultation with the pupils or parents and are simply being imposed.

"I feel that as a school that encourages its pupils to be engaged and have a voice this seems to be a complete lack of democracy by not allowing the established pupil forums to have input on school uniform changes.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...neutral-rules/

[Crimson Dynamo]

top comment:


According to the ONS a whopping 2.7% of population identify as LGBTQ in 2021. We are trashing everything we have come to know to satisfy this tiny minority. Our politicians cannot even say what a women is now. Very depressing with no end in sight to this lunacy.


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[Swan]

Shouldn't they be allowed to choose what they wear, skirt or trousers? I just don't see how governing what people wear is progression?! It's the opposite in fact.

[thesheriff443]

There should be a choice, because one size doesn’t fit all in terms of gender.

[Strictly Jake]

There was a time where girls weren't allowed to wear trousers at school wasn't there. I agree everyone should get to decide what they want to wear. I still think a uniform is necessary...but maybe in the way people wish to wear it

[The Slim Reaper]

I'm outraged. I like school age children in skirts at all times. Perfectly normal day on new tibb.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm outraged. I like school age children in skirts at all times. Perfectly normal day on new tibb.

What is your actual problem and who is it with?

Say what you want to say instead of hiding behind twisted statements

[Swan]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I'm outraged. I like school age children in skirts at all times. Perfectly normal day on new tibb.

There's a perfectly reasonable discussion to have about things like this without having to make it 'weird' though.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

What is your actual problem and who is it with?

Say what you want to say instead of hiding behind twisted statements

It's pretty clear for anyone with brain cells. There was no twisted statement.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Swan

There's a perfectly reasonable discussion to have about things like this without having to make it 'weird' though.

Things like what? Attempted inclusion? LGBTQ young people? What children have to wear in school? Girls with dicks?

I'm not the one making it weird. Weird is the continuing obsession of folks on here (not you that I've noticed).

[Swan]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Things like what? Attempted inclusion? LGBTQ young people? What children have to wear in school? Girls with dicks?

I'm not the one making it weird. Weird is the continuing obsession of folks on here (not you that I've noticed).

The idea, or in this case actual fact, kids/people are being governed in what they can and can't wear thus ruining the whole 'people should be free to wear what they like and be who they like' argument.

It's going overboard, where are the people complaining that girls should only wear trousers now? It's a non issue imo. I don't think trans kids are bothered about girls wearing skirts, are they?

I just think it's over the top, and kinda stupid really.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Swan

The idea, or in this case actual fact, kids/people are being governed in what they can and can't wear thus ruining the whole 'people should be free to wear what they like and be who they like' argument.

It's going overboard, where are the people complaining that girls should only wear trousers now? It's a non issue imo. I don't think trans kids are bothered about girls wearing skirts, are they?

I just think it's over the top, and kinda stupid really.

I was governed by what I wore to school, you were governed by it, and girls have also always had their school attire subject to rules.

School children having school uniform requirements isn't quite the issue it's made out to be, without the hints and insinuations of the issue (again, not what you've done but it is what the story is about).

Schools are not now, and have never been democracies for young people, and uniform requirements are nothing to do with pupils or their parents.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I was governed by what I wore to school, you were governed by it, and girls have also always had their school attire subject to rules.

School children having school uniform requirements isn't quite the issue it's made out to be, without the hints and insinuations of the issue (again, not what you've done but it is what the story is about).

Schools are not now, and have never been democracies for young people, and uniform requirements are nothing to do with pupils or their parents.

All that is true. But it doesn't make it right. I mean, will girls be allowed to wear shorts? I wonder if boys are still allowed? In the summer i wore shorts to school. Kids will wear school uniforms more than any other clothing in their young lives, the comfort aspect should also play a part.

What kid what's to be wearing black trousers on hot summers day?!

[rusticgal]

I think it is appalling. I think school children should be able to wear what they want so long as it is the school uniform...trousers or skirt.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Swan

All that is true. But it doesn't make it right. I mean, will girls be allowed to wear shorts? I wonder if boys are still allowed? In the summer i wore shorts to school. Kids will wear school uniforms more than any other clothing in their young lives, the comfort aspect should also play a part.

What kid what's to be wearing black trousers on hot summers day?!

Why do you care? I had to wear a blazer, a tie, and a waistcoat, no one posted articles about how I should be allowed to wear what I want. I really just despair at what is happening in the world at the moment (especially in this country) versus what the citizenry think is important.

Maybe some of the folks on this forum need to worry about how kids are being forced into poverty rather than what they have to wear for a portion of the day, but that's just me I guess

[Swan]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Why do you care? I had to wear a blazer, a tie, and a waistcoat, no one posted articles about how I should be allowed to wear what I want. I really just despair at what is happening in the world at the moment (especially in this country) versus what the citizenry think is important.

Maybe some of the folks on this forum need to worry about how kids are being forced into poverty rather than what they have to wear for a portion of the day, but that's just me I guess

Well then what's the point of debating ever, about anything?! I don't care about the royals, any of them, i lump them all in the same the bundle, but i can still have an opinion on them from time to time. (brought them into this as it's an apt example, especially on this forum)

Ya know, why do you care, that i care? (not you personally, just in general) It's swings and roundabouts. Imo, to ban girls from wearing skirts now is ridiculous and i don't see what it's going to achieve in the long run.

I also think the right age for a child to have a serious discussion about sex, gender, identity is 12. Im not saying that's correct, but it's my opinion. It's as valid as any other.

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Swan

Well then what's the point of debating ever, about anything?! I don't care about the royals, any of them, i lump them all in the same the bundle, but i can still have an opinion on them from time to time. (brought them into this as it's an apt example, especially on this forum)

Ya know, why do you care, that i care? (not you personally, just in general) It's swings and roundabouts. Imo, to ban girls from wearing skirts now is ridiculous and i don't see what it's going to achieve in the long run.

I also think the right age for a child to have a serious discussion about sex, gender, identity is 12. Im not saying that's correct, but it's my opinion. It's as valid as any other.

It's not a debate though is it? It's red meat. Do you think the torygraph wrote this to start a debate on the democratisation of school uniform policy, or to wind a few blurts up about woke/trans kids?

Your opinions are completely valid. I disagree with most of them but you're not a troll, you're sincere. I have no problem with that. I didn't come after anyone else's opinions, I posted my own, but because they veer away from tibb orthodoxy, I have sheriff pretending he's gone clear

[Kate!]

My opinion. Girls and boys should both be able to wear their own personal choice of a skirt or trousers.

[user104658]

I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to blame LGBT for this one, I can’t imagine it’s a desired outcome AT ALL for them as the whole point (as far as I understand it) of gender identity is individualised self expression, which this removes entirely.

In fact I would be more inclined to suspect that this is a covert move AGAINST gender individualism. If you genericise the uniform to be largely the same for boys and girls, then it becomes much harder for school kids to engage in outward/aesthetic forms of gender expression. This removes a large viral component of gender ideology … I think this would ultimately reduce the number of adolescent females announcing male or non-binary gender identity. As a hypothesis.

To be blunt (and this will go down like a lead balloon with some people, I’m sure) - for many of them, there will be no point in engaging in gender exploration if they can’t show it off aesthetically.

Also as another aside - my daughter (female, gay) would be furious if her school brought this in as she DETESTS wearing school trousers.

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Why do you care? I had to wear a blazer, a tie, and a waistcoat, no one posted articles about how I should be allowed to wear what I want. I really just despair at what is happening in the world at the moment (especially in this country) versus what the citizenry think is important.

Maybe some of the folks on this forum need to worry about how kids are being forced into poverty rather than what they have to wear for a portion of the day, but that's just me I guess

Hmmm I assume you know fine well that arguing that a discussion shouldn’t be had because there are other important things to discuss is not logically sound; there are threads on the issues you’re talking about and they are discussed, we’re not suffering from a lack of discussion bandwidth to make this any sort of a valid point. We can have an idle discussion about school uniforms AND still discuss the major global issues that are going on. One might even argue that smaller more localised issues are of greater importance to discuss, because an individual stands a chance of being heard and making a difference in something like their kids uniform policy - whereas when it comes down to it we all know that we’re firing spitballs at bulldozers when it comes to global events. We can discuss them but we can’t even nudge their course, let alone stop them.

You’re resorting to the “…but there are starving kids in Africa!” counterpoint which is, surely, one of the VERY FIRST that those of us interested in debate learn is bull**** and a cop out.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

It's not a debate though is it? It's red meat. Do you think the torygraph wrote this to start a debate on the democratisation of school uniform policy, or to wind a few blurts up about woke/trans kids?

Your opinions are completely valid. I disagree with most of them but you're not a troll, you're sincere. I have no problem with that. I didn't come after anyone else's opinions, I posted my own, but because they veer away from tibb orthodoxy, I have sheriff pretending he's gone clear

I think it's up for debate, in general, as we could rightly veer off into the direction of being able to be free, and having the right to choose who we are and what we wear. I think it's bigger than the un-democratic way in which we are governed, and were governed by school rules and dress codes and how they're run (which you quite rightly brought up).

And yes of course, it's a story to get people 'outraged', the sensationalism of the British media has always been disproportionate in regards to the story they're actually selling. We need to take a lot of it with a pinch of salt.

I also think issues are made, a lot of the time, with non issues. Especially by our press. It's easy and light. "girls should be allowed to wear skirts raa raah rahh" - "why does it matter ugh you wanna oppress progression ugh" - and thus attention is being taken away from MUCH more serious issues as they're harder to tackle, and make a lot of people feel uncomfortable. Both sides are guilty of that.

Ok im going off on one now, in my own little world here lol. I think the biggest problem with anything like this is compromise, we can never, as a strange little island agree or compromise on anything.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Swan

Shouldn't they be allowed to choose what they wear, skirt or trousers? I just don't see how governing what people wear is progression?! It's the opposite in fact.

This.

But common sense is against the law in 2022.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

I was governed by what I wore to school, you were governed by it, and girls have also always had their school attire subject to rules.

School children having school uniform requirements isn't quite the issue it's made out to be, without the hints and insinuations of the issue (again, not what you've done but it is what the story is about).

Schools are not now, and have never been democracies for young people, and uniform requirements are nothing to do with pupils or their parents.

I agree with this.

I don't see it as a big thing tbh, but then I also don't see how it matters whether they wear trousers or skirts...

But yeah you're right, there is no democracy as to what a child wears to school... There is just a uniform and schools, the ones I've gone to anyway, are strict about this.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Girls with dicks?

No girl has a dick

[user104658]

Originally Posted by ThomasC

I agree with this.

I don't see it as a big thing tbh, but then I also don't see how it matters whether they wear trousers or skirts...

But yeah you're right, there is no democracy as to what a child wears to school... There is just a uniform and schools, the ones I've gone to anyway, are strict about this.

It’s not really about what any of us think about it though, it’s about what the kids themselves think about it and allowing them a voice. It’s a highly formative age and saying “these are the rules and that’s that, live with it” isn’t the sort of school I’d want my kids going to, and it isn’t a school that’s suited to doing anything much more than churning out workforce proletariat. It’s a race to the bottom of we’re seeking to stamp out free-thinking, debate and protest in 15 year olds.

I’m actually quite surprised to see Slim advocating for it but I suspect it’s because there’s been some sort of flip in the logic here, and there’s a prevailing argument that BANNING skirt wearing is PRO lgbt/gender identity when (as above) I’d argue that it’s the absolute opposite.

Enforcing a gender neutral uniform is anti-gender-expression, anti-individuality… it’s intended to genericise and normalise drone status. This is a pureblood Tory policy at heart.

[ThomasC]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It’s not really about what any of us think about it though, it’s about what the kids themselves think about it and allowing them a voice. It’s a highly formative age and saying “these are the rules and that’s that, live with it” isn’t the sort of school I’d want my kids going to, and it isn’t a school that’s suited to doing anything much more than churning out workforce proletariat. It’s a race to the bottom of we’re seeking to stamp out free-thinking, debate and protest in 15 year olds.

I’m actually quite surprised to see Slim advocating for it but I suspect it’s because there’s been some sort of flip in the logic here, and there’s a prevailing argument that BANNING skirt wearing is PRO lgbt/gender identity when (as above) I’d argue that it’s the absolute opposite.

Enforcing a gender neutral uniform is anti-gender-expression, anti-individuality… it’s intended to genericise and normalise drone status. This is a pureblood Tory policy at heart.

They can have a voice, but then it's the decision of the school.

Do you think I wanted to wear a cap, tie and blazer? Nope, but I had to.

You wouldn't want your kids going to a school with rules that are saying these are the rules and that's it? Schools have been like that for as long as I know when it comes to uniform and many other things

Not ruling out free thinking or protest and I don't think schools are either, bit there are rules on schools just like there is in society.

I think one can express themselves in many ways which isn't a uniform. It's not anti individualism or anti gender expression. It's a school uniform and schools have dress codes. How individual and gender expressive are you going to become wearing some trousers which are unisex to be worn in an educational setting?