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Old 04-08-2022, 06:29 PM   #1
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Default Sussex PCs used baton and Taser on elderly man in wheelchair

Gross misconduct notices have been served on two police officers who used a baton, a Taser and incapacitant spray on a man in a wheelchair.

Donald Burgess, who was also later handcuffed, died three weeks after the incident at a St Leonards care home.

The 93-year-old, who had dementia and one leg, was said to be threatening staff with a knife on 21 June.

A police watchdog probe is under way and both officers face a criminal investigation for manslaughter.

The Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said this did not necessarily mean disciplinary proceedings or criminal charges would follow.

Graham Beesley, IOPC regional director, said investigators would look at whether force used against Mr Burgess was "reasonable, necessary and proportionate in the circumstances" and whether it was in line with policy.

He said: "We have advised his next-of-kin of our independent investigation and explained the steps we will be taking."

The IOPC has not revealed which care home it was.

The officers - both police constables - arrived to be shown by care home staff into a room where Mr Burgess was holding a knife, the IOPC said.

Officers briefly engaged with Mr Burgess before one used PAVA spray - which is like pepper spray - followed by a baton.

The second deployed a Taser before the knife was removed from Mr Burgess and he was handcuffed.

Mr Burgess was taken to hospital after the incident and stayed there until he died three weeks later on 13 July.

The incident was referred to the IOPC by Sussex Police amid allegations of excessive use of force.

Investigators have taken witness statements, reviewed body-worn video footage, and also attended the post-mortem.

Mr Beesley said the cause of death was not yet known and the watchdog was awaiting the findings of further cardio-pathology examinations.

Sussex Police said the incident took place in the room where Mr Burgess lived.

Assistant Chief Constable Tanya Jones said: "We are providing every assistance to the IOPC to allow for a thorough investigation and for the family to receive the answers they need."

She said Sussex Police could not provide any further details as the investigation remained ongoing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-62426889
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:34 PM   #2
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So they were just supposed to let him stab people?
Good riddance to the evil man.
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:37 PM   #3
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I’m going to suggest that if it takes two officers, batons, pepper spray and a taser to take down a one legged, 93 year old dementia sufferer in a wheelchair, then they aren’t very good at their jobs
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Old 04-08-2022, 06:39 PM   #4
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Default Sussex PCs used baton and Taser on elderly man in wheelchair

They should have just pushed him into the corner of a auxiliary room and left him until he calmed down


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Old 04-08-2022, 07:53 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Liam- View Post
Iím going to suggest that if it takes two officers, batons, pepper spray and a taser to take down a one legged, 93 year old dementia sufferer in a wheelchair, then they arenít very good at their jobs
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Old 05-08-2022, 02:10 AM   #6
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All I can say is:

Danger! Danger! High Voltage!
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Old 05-08-2022, 02:11 AM   #7
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Iím going to suggest that if it takes two officers, batons, pepper spray and a taser to take down a one legged, 93 year old dementia sufferer in a wheelchair, then they arenít very good at their jobs
Fair point.
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Old 05-08-2022, 02:25 AM   #8
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So they were just supposed to let him stab people?
Good riddance to the evil man.
You think a disabled OAP with one leg in a wheelchair with dementia, is that dangerous that he deserves to be 'tasered' ... and have a 'baton' used on him???!!!!.
There's something very TONE DEAF about that .. but OK.
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:00 AM   #9
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You think a disabled OAP with one leg in a wheelchair with dementia, is that dangerous that he deserves to be 'tasered' ... and have a 'baton' used on him???!!!!.
There's something very TONE DEAF about that .. but OK.
A demented crazy person with a knife is more scary than you think. Wheelchair or not.
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:31 AM   #10
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A demented crazy person with a knife is more scary than you think. Wheelchair or not.
Someone with dementia is not the same as the term demented
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Old 05-08-2022, 08:57 AM   #11
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Someone with dementia is not the same as the term demented
Oh? I thought dementia meant that they were taken by the devil now.
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Old 05-08-2022, 09:02 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam- View Post
Iím going to suggest that if it takes two officers, batons, pepper spray and a taser to take down a one legged, 93 year old dementia sufferer in a wheelchair, then they arenít very good at their jobs
Either that or he was a Davros-tier badass menace.
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Old 05-08-2022, 10:47 AM   #13
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Hard to say whether it was justified, hence the investigation which would be standard in these circumstances.

I don't, personally, think he died as a result of this though.

He died three weeks later, he was 93 and had dementia. I know that in dementia, even the transition can kill them.

PAVA doesn't always work. Some people it has no effect on.

Using a baton, well he may have lunged at them. He did have another leg! There's a lot of circumstances we just do not know.

Just because he was 93, had dementia and only one leg doesn't mean he was incapable of inflicting extreme harm.
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Old 05-08-2022, 10:49 AM   #14
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Iím going to suggest that if it takes two officers, batons, pepper spray and a taser to take down a one legged, 93 year old dementia sufferer in a wheelchair, then they arenít very good at their jobs
Completely disagree

Feel free to attend a job like that though and let us know how you get on. Lol
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Old 05-08-2022, 11:06 AM   #15
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I mean, pepper spray would have been sufficient and understandable, beating and tasing a 93 year old dementia patient in a wheelchair? Completely barbaric, no matter which way it’s spun
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Old 05-08-2022, 07:48 PM   #16
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I mean, pepper spray would have been sufficient and understandable, beating and tasing a 93 year old dementia patient in a wheelchair? Completely barbaric, no matter which way it’s spun
Exactly my point !

I find it incredibly hard to believe a 93 year old pensioner with dementia & 1 leg , would be that dangerous.

The actions they took were as if they were dealing with a 20 year old terrorist with knives & an assault rifle. In fact I bet he'd get treated better ! .
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Old 06-08-2022, 07:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
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I mean, pepper spray would have been sufficient and understandable, beating and tasing a 93 year old dementia patient in a wheelchair? Completely barbaric, no matter which way itís spun
I'm imagining that the space in which they were in was small.

Using PAVA spray in a small room can cause more harm than good. There's a good chance it would incapitate the officers too.

Like I say, pepper spray is not always effective.

I can't say with certainty whether it was justified until fully investigated.

I'm quite certain in saying that it wasn't this that ultimately led to his death though.
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Old 06-08-2022, 07:04 AM   #18
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Exactly my point !

I find it incredibly hard to believe a 93 year old pensioner with dementia & 1 leg , would be that dangerous.

The actions they took were as if they were dealing with a 20 year old terrorist with knives & an assault rifle. In fact I bet he'd get treated better ! .
If he had an assault rifle it would have required a completely different response and action cards.

999 operators grade the call depending on the information they receive.

He would have potentially been shot dead had he had an assault rifle.
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Old 06-08-2022, 06:57 PM   #19
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If he had an assault rifle it would have required a completely different response and action cards.

999 operators grade the call depending on the information they receive.

He would have potentially been shot dead had he had an assault rifle.

The point I'm making is a 93 yr old DISABLED man with DEMENTIA, is nowhere near the same threat as a 20 yr old terrorist ! .

Ok not an assault rifle,but if say a younger ABLE BODIED person had a knife or some other weapon . Then I could understand police / authorities using these methods & actions.

And this isn't the first time police officers have automatically gone for a tazer in rash decisions. I don't think it's justified to use a baton ,pepper spray & a tazer on a 93 old ill man . If this was America would they also shoot him aswell ?!! . Can you imagine.
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Old 06-08-2022, 07:09 PM   #20
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If you're unable to have the nous to go around the back of the wheelchair and disarm him of his knife whilst someone in front distracts him, then you probably shouldn't be a Police Constable.
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:45 PM   #21
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At the end of the day hes dead now and cant hurt anyone else.
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Old 06-08-2022, 08:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam- View Post
Iím going to suggest that if it takes two officers, batons, pepper spray and a taser to take down a one legged, 93 year old dementia sufferer in a wheelchair, then they arenít very good at their jobs

One to fire the Taser

2nd Officer as Back Up Taser


Normal
as sometimes the Taser
can fail.
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