[Cherie]

You can't vote or drive until you are 18, yet people thing some 16 year olds are capable of making life changing decisions, it's one thing to experiment sexually, no harm done, completely another to take medication that can be detrimental to your development

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

16 year old are legally allowed to make their own medical decisions, you agreed that 16 year olds aren’t old enough to know what and who they are, that’s rubbish, you probably knew who you were at 16, I knew who I was at 16, to tell teenagers that they’re just confused when they know they’re not and that they have no right to make decisions about themselves, is damaging and can lead to all sorts of issues, as studies have proven time and time again.

It’s like people would rather young people be depressed, suicidal or dead than be trans and it’s a truly sad state of affairs to see the complete lack of compassion, empathy and understanding towards people that are already facing hardships just because of who they are

Like I said I also disagree with 16 being the consent age for sex, I will say though that a 16 year old transitioning is less crazy than a 10 year old ,imo that's child abuse .

The way I see it , at 16 you can live as the gender you want to be . But I personally don't think they should get medical surgery or hormones until 18 & I will always have that view. Plus it's important to mention aswell that it isn't just about how the child feels, they need to be diagnosed with 'Gender dysphoria ' which is the whole point.

And there has been cases of people regretting the gender surgery , and it's affected them psychologically. People need to be 100% sure , before making such a big decision.

[Liam-]

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get abortion? Are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

[Liam-]

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get an abortion if that what she chooses to do? Or are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get an abortion if that what she chooses to do? Or are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

That's cool bring up the heavy abortion argument, but we all know many women out there will emotionally still be affected by it ,even if they feel it was the right decision. There is no way they will just carry on & not psychologically feel a certain type of way , because again it's a life changing decision.

And you know very well there's people against abortion , I personally think it's a woman's choice however they could also let the child be adopted. But I understand that if a woman has been raped , then the pregnancy will be far too traumatic to go through on top of that.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get abortion? Are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

And loss of or no sexual function, you OK with a 16 year old deciding that?


And no obviously I wouldn't tell a 16 year old they couldn't have an abortion but they are two completely different things and risk of infertility due to abortion is low, where as it's pretty much guaranteed with sex reassignment surgery.

Anyway, I honestly can't be arsed arguing with a person who thinks a 16 year old consenting to all of this is A-OK. Maybe educate yourself on the very common complications after surgery and side effects of puberty blockers and on detransitioners

[Niamh.]

PS "lifestyles I don't agree with" I couldn't care less what people do with their lives as long as it doesn't clash with other peoples rights or it harms children

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

PS "lifestyles I don't agree with" I couldn't care less what people do with their lives as long as it doesn't clash with other peoples rights or it harms children

Exactly
Plus why can't a 16 year old wait another 2 years ?, If they're 100% sure they want to transition then what's another 2 years. In that time they should be diagnosed as having 'gender dysphoria ' , and they could experiment & actually see if they want to permanently live as the opposite sex . But they shouldn't go down the medically route until 18 . This is a huge decision after all.

[Cherie]

I couldnt care less about how people live their lives, why do you think anyone cares what consenting adults get up to... unless of course if it impinges on hard fought rights

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Should people not be allowed to be gay until they’re 18 too?

How is that the same thing?

One is your sexuality, the other is an operation that the child might regret once they become an adult.

[Liam-]

You’re not allowed to have the sex change operation if you’re under 18 anyway, unless you go to one of these dodgy places that has no rules for things like that

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I’m referring purely to the stupidity of stating that a 16 year old isn’t old enough to know who and what they are, speak to any lgbt person and the vast majority of them will tell you that’s complete rubbish

16 is very young to know if you're Transgender imo.

I personally think that adults are normally in a better position to know if they're Transgender.

[Liam-]

You’re not allowed to have the sex change operation if you’re under 18 anyway, unless you go to one of these dodgy places that has no rules for things like that

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s not even close to what was said

You're actually wrong, I think that you need to read my post again because I don't get what you've taken from "16 is too young" and me agreeing with GoldHeart about "18 being the legal age" for the option for people to become Transgender to be open.

Honestly before being self-righteous, read other people's posts before saying things like this post you've wrote out here, because I'm sure that other members will agree with me that you've not read my post properly, or GoldHeart's.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

16 year old are legally allowed to make their own medical decisions, you agreed that 16 year olds aren’t old enough to know what and who they are, that’s rubbish, you probably knew who you were at 16, I knew who I was at 16, to tell teenagers that they’re just confused when they know they’re not and that they have no right to make decisions about themselves, is damaging and can lead to all sorts of issues, as studies have proven time and time again.

It’s like people would rather young people be depressed, suicidal or dead than be trans and it’s a truly sad state of affairs to see the complete lack of compassion, empathy and understanding towards people that are already facing hardships just because of who they are

Nobody is saying that a 16 year old can't feel Transgender or unofficially even see themselves that way if they wish.

But I honestly believe that by the time you're 18 years old you are normally more confident about who you really are, and that's when the Transgender operation should be possible to anyone that wants it.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Having an abortion carries a chance of affecting future fertility too, you gonna tell a 16 year old that she can’t get an abortion if that what she chooses to do? Or are you only against medical choices that lead to lifestyles you don’t agree with?

I'm not a woman so it's not really my place to really say anything.

But if you force my hand, I prefer children be put up for adoption if the Mother doesn't want the child.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You’re not allowed to have the sex change operation if you’re under 18 anyway, unless you go to one of these dodgy places that has no rules for things like that

But we both know that there are extremist groups trying to lower the age of when the operation can be performed.

[bitontheslide]

16 is the age of consent in the UK, that's a legal entitlement, so saying someone should be 18 to consent is legally wrong and an infringement on an individuals rights

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

You're actually wrong, I think that you need to read my post again because I don't get what you've taken from "16 is too young" and me agreeing with GoldHeart about "18 being the legal age" for the option for people to become Transgender to be open.

Honestly before being self-righteous, read other people's posts before saying things like this post you've wrote out here, because I'm sure that other members will agree with me that you've not read my post properly, or GoldHeart's.

This is literally what you said

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Personally I don't think that 16 year olds are old enough to know if they're Trans or not.

And it’s what I replied to, it’s completely disingenuous to suggest that just because someone is 16, they don’t know who or what they are, that’s what I took exception to, because it’s factually incorrect, so I wasn’t being self-righteous, I was disagreeing with a point you very clearly made

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

But we both know that there are extremist groups trying to lower the age of when the operation can be performed.

Are there? I haven’t seen anyone advocate for the surgery age being dropped, but let’s say it was dropped to 16, so what? You’re legally allowed to consent to surgeries at that age and nobody is just given a sex change operation at the drop of a hat, it takes years of therapy and consultations to make sure someone is truly ready for it, it’s not like going to the apple shop and buying a phone like people pretend it is to push their agenda

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

16 is the age of consent in the UK, that's a legal entitlement, so saying someone should be 18 to consent is legally wrong and an infringement on an individuals rights

That’s what it all boils down to though, there are people involved in the campaign that don’t want trans people to have rights and the opportunity to be who they are, it’s why the goalposts are constantly shifted in the argument, because nothing will ever be good enough for them until trans people are banned from society all together

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Are there? I haven’t seen anyone advocate for the surgery age being dropped, but let’s say it was dropped to 16, so what? You’re legally allowed to consent to surgeries at that age and nobody is just given a sex change operation at the drop of a hat, it takes years of therapy and consultations to make sure someone is truly ready for it, it’s not like going to the apple shop and buying a phone like people pretend it is to push their agenda

How do you feel about kids aged 5 to 12 being called 'Transgender' ? ,When they're still children? . I don't know about you ..but I think most children that age want to be a marvel superhero or pepper pig or something , they're not thinking about being born as the wrong gender.

As for the 16 being legal age , it's different for a 16 year old to say they feel like a different gender, than to physically go through hormones and surgery. Don't you understand that it's a life altering thing? . I still think a 16 year old should wait till they're 18 before fully transitioning.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

How do you feel about kids aged 5 to 12 being called 'Transgender' ? ,When they're still children? . I don't know about you ..but I think most children that age want to be a marvel superhero or pepper pig or something , they're not thinking about being born as the wrong gender.

As for the 16 being legal age , it's different for a 16 year old to say they feel like a different gender, than to physically go through hormones and surgery. Don't you understand that it's a life altering thing? . I still think a 16 year old should wait till they're 18 before fully transitioning.

Well you’ve just answered your own question there haven’t you ‘most children aren’t thinking about being born as the wrong gender’ there are some children who do feel the affects or being transgender that young, how do I feel about them being called transgender? I’m not sure, it could be a bit early to stick a definitive label on it, do I think it’s any more weird than young children being called things like ‘future lady killer’ or heartbreakers? Or people saying that kids will have to be beating people off with a stick when they’re older? That’s a lot weirder and is blatant sexualising it’s children, but the majority of people don’t seem to have a problem with that.

Of course it’s a life altering thing, that’s the whole point and as long as someone is legal age to consent to a surgery and medication and they fully understand the risks and the benefits and all potential outcomes it’s not up to anybody else to tell them what they can and can’t do with their bodies, I thought we were against policing people’s autonomy?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

This is literally what you said



And it’s what I replied to, it’s completely disingenuous to suggest that just because someone is 16, they don’t know who or what they are, that’s what I took exception to, because it’s factually incorrect, so I wasn’t being self-righteous, I was disagreeing with a point you very clearly made

Me and GoldHeart did also say about how the legal age should be 18, which Niamh also saw the posts that me and GoldHeart had made about that, yet you denied that we had said that, which you was wrong because it was a point that I very clearly made as you put it.

Fair enough if you don't agree with my opinion on the topic, but it's very clear from the other posts that I've made on this thread what I meant, trying to claim otherwise would be disingenuous on your part.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

That’s what it all boils down to though, there are people involved in the campaign that don’t want trans people to have rights and the opportunity to be who they are, it’s why the goalposts are constantly shifted in the argument, because nothing will ever be good enough for them until trans people are banned from society all together

That is certainly not my agenda.

I know there are people that have that particular agenda, but for me I just feel like you have to 100% know that you're Transgender, and for me the older the better in that sense.

Speaking for myself I would never support the Trans community being banished from society.