[Zizu]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

President Joe Biden has said it is wrong to block children’s access to sex change
surgeries or puberty blockers.

Mr Biden, who hosted a popular trans TikToker at the White House last week,
said he believed it was both a moral and legal issue as he spoke to a panel of
activists for the NowThis News presidential forum.

When asked if red states should have the right to pass laws limiting access to
gender reassignment treatments, Mr Biden said in comments published on
Sunday: “I don’t think any state or anybody should have the right to do that.


“As a moral question and as a legal question, I just think it’s wrong,” the
president added.

To be fair he doesn’t know what day it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Redway]

We have a lot of people on this forum who love to paint others as mentally-ill (to the point of needing to be locked away in secure units) just for having a different opinion/lifestyle to them but the difference is Oliver’s pathologisation of trans. people goes unchecked just because he happens to articulate his posts well enough. If this was sheriff443 (another annoying poster who says the most ridiculous things) bans would be handed out like hot cakes.

[Oliver_W]

I'm not really sure where you're getting "transphobia" from? Why is it apparently offensive to say that someone's mental perception of themself is contrary to their physical reality?

I don't think there's anything wrong with people having mental ill-health, and acting like it's an insult smacks of stigmatisation.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I'm not really sure where you're getting "transphobia" from? Why is it apparently offensive to say that someone's mental perception of themself is contrary to their physical reality?

Because it’s 2022 for one thing.

[Redway]

And it’s a form of gaslighting,

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Redway

But Oliver is kinda transphobic. That much is for show.

No he isnt

what you mean is he isnt pandering to the trans unscientific VS groupthink

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

Because it’s 2022 for one thing.

"It's the current year!"

Okay.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

And it’s a form of gaslighting,

How so?

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I'm not really sure where you're getting "transphobia" from? Why is it apparently offensive to say that someone's mental perception of themself is contrary to their physical reality?

I don't think there's anything wrong with people having mental ill-health, and acting like it's an insult smacks of stigmatisation.

I actually have a trans. friend who goes against your grail by being the perfect epitome of lucidity and good mental health. He (it was a female-to-male conversion) wasn’t deluded as to think that his genitals and biological sex weren’t what they were from birth-assignment. He just knew he wanted to transition genders, knowing the amount of ostracisation he’d face from people like you (and people even more flagrantly-transphobic, and in fairness I don’t think you’re the type to actively hate on them). I’m not sure someone who was psychiatrically-unstable in that sense would make such a life-altering decision and happily stick to it for life. The ‘delusion’ would’ve eventually wore-off by now if it was a form of dysmorphic psychosis and there’d probably be some sort of definite medication for it but there isn’t any. So naturally I don’t regard him as mentally-ill just for having a sexual preference. I’m not super-down with the trans. life and you won’t see me actively-campaigning for them (which by my standards is even bad) but I’m definitely not going to pathologise them for making a choice as an intelligent-enough adult.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

How so?

You’re dictating to someone how their inner sense of gender-identity should be in conformance with their genitals and calling them crazy for expressing free will. How is that not messing with their own perception of THEIR reality (not yours)?

[Redway]

I’m not saying being woke is enough to defy scientific reality but when it comes to something as nuanced as that there isn’t actually any universal reality. That’s why individuals (of a suitable age, no-doubt) are allowed to make the choice to be who they want to be. Gaslighting people/calling them crazy when they’re obviously functional and experience whatever thoughts and feelings they have in alignment with something subjective to them just isn’t a good look. You don’t have to like them or what they do but if they’re not crazy they’re not crazy. You’re just repulsed by the idea of trans. people doing what they do.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

the amount of ostracisation he’d face from people like you

I wouldn't ostracise someone for their conditions

Originally Posted by Redway

You’re dictating to someone how their inner sense of gender-identity should be in conformance with their genitals and calling them crazy for expressing free will. How is that not messing with their own perception of THEIR reality (not yours)?

I'm not saying anyone should say or think anything - they're allowed to be wrong when it comes down to it, we are our bodies. Their reality is the body they're born into. If there's a disconnect between what they are and which aspects of a social construct they "identify" as ... how is that any different to a thin person perceiving a fat person in the mirror? Would it be gaslighting to tell them that they're not fat?

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

I’m not saying being woke is enough to defy scientific reality but when it comes to something as nuanced as that there isn’t actually any universal reality. That’s why individuals (of a suitable age, no-doubt) are allowed to make the choice to be who they want to be. Gaslighting people/calling them crazy when they’re obviously functional and experience whatever thoughts and feelings they have in alignment with something subjective to them just isn’t a good look. You don’t have to like them or what they do but if they’re not crazy they’re not crazy. You’re just repulsed by the idea of trans. people doing what they do.

Again you seem to be implying a stigmatisation of mental health disorders. There's nothing wrong with being crazy

[The Slim Reaper]

Redway got up this morning and decided to choose violence

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I wouldn't ostracise someone for their conditions


I'm not saying anyone should say or think anything - they're allowed to be wrong when it comes down to it, we are our bodies. Their reality is the body they're born into. If there's a disconnect between what they are and which aspects of a social construct they "identify" as ... how is that any different to a thin person perceiving a fat person in the mirror? Would it be gaslighting to tell them that they're not fat?

The thing you keep ignoring is that subjective gender-identity is dependent on the person and far-more nuanced than physiological sex in the strictest sense of the term (and, indeed, only a hebephrene, psychotic body-dysmorphic or delusionally-depressed person would be in any doubt about what biological sex their genitals conform to). I think the issue is that much of the world’s historically made gender a rigid dichotomy of behaviourist traits and expectations which have little biological basis and probably shouldn’t have an influence on anything other than relationship-family dynamics to a certain extent and I guess you could say people who strongly identify with the opposite pole (hormonal imbalances might be at play as-well) choose to transition largely for that reason but again the reasons vary from person to person and I don’t think there’s anyway cognisant leeway anyone has to get into all that without actually personally-experiencing it. But the bottom line is that trans. people pre.-surgery know too-well what their biological sex is. They have no problem understanding the reality of that. The determining crux for them is that they just don’t want to be of that biological sex but that’s a choice (however-misguided/unnatural you think it is), not a delusion.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Redway got up this morning and decided to choose violence

Erm.

[Redway]

Also, which medical model are you using for claiming that transsexualism is officially a mental disorder? It certainly isn’t the latest version of the ICD.

[Liam-]

I can’t get passed the having a trans friend but not being pro-trans, that’s wild to me on a different level and kinda hypocritical if I’m being honest

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I can’t get passed the having a trans friend but not being pro-trans, that’s wild to me on a different level and kinda hypocritical if I’m being honest

I’m not uber pro-trans. in the way someone who was definitely part of the LGBT community would be but that’s just me being honest. It’s just like people (Christians-included) having gay friends but not actively-supporting the act of homosexuality. I’m not saying the latter anecdote applies to me at all but I can understand people having varying levels of personal opinions on the subject so long as an appropriate line’s drawn. Oliver doesn’t seem to know where the line is. I have my private opinions but at the same time I’m not living in 1966 or desperately-trying to pathologise transgendered people while hypocritically saying that the real stigma comes from people who take offence on behalf of them for saying they’re not mentally-ill. And that’s just kind of how it is.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I can’t get passed the having a trans friend but not being pro-trans, that’s wild to me on a different level and kinda hypocritical if I’m being honest

Also, I think you mean past.*

Sorry. I couldn’t resist.

[Redway]

Nothing to add, Oliver, no?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I mean he’s right though, in a country that based itself off of freedom, taking away a families choice of how to deal with a sensitive situation like having a trans child and the choice of how to proceed is legally and morally wrong

I'm probably going off on a tangent with what I'm about to say here, so apologies in advance.

But is any country truly free? I know that the USA likes to pretend it is, but I personally feel like there's always been cracks in their system that prove otherwise.

My main example being that the two main parties are so corrupt that there's basically no chance of a new party rising up the ranks, which is no different to the UK.

So I'm not surprised that they as a country might be having some issues with Trans rights.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Zizu

To be fair he doesn’t know what day it is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What a ridiculous and irresponsible claim to make Liam. When did we get to a place where suicide is used as a threat like that? You don't give children life altering drugs with irreversible side effects because they might commit suicide otherwise, when did we get to this point? What the NHS are saying is that they need to explore more thoroughly what's going on in that young persons head before setting them on such an extreme pathway. The reason why the Tavistock is being closed is because there was no other areas of the young persons problems looked at other than their gender claims and evidence strongly suggests that a lot of those claiming to be trans in recent years are autistic and probably not actually trans at all. What is the actual issue in making sure that they are trans before giving them drugs that will cause sterilisation and life long medicalisation? I don't understand why you're so against making sure first?

[Swan]

Why don't we let kids drink before 18? Drive before 17. Smoke before 18. Get married before 18? Why don't we even let kids watch certain films before 18?