[LeatherTrumpet]

did any sane adult think otherwise?

Most children who believe that they are transgender are just going through a
“phase”, the NHS has said, as it warns that doctors should not encourage them
to change their names and pronouns.

NHS England has announced plans for tightening controls on the treatment of
under 18s questioning their gender, including a ban on prescribing puberty
blockers outside of strict clinical trials.

The services, which will replace the controversial Tavistock clinic, will be led by
medical doctors rather than therapists and will consider the impact of other
conditions such as autism and mental health issues.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...hase-says-nhs/

[GoldHeart]

I'm glad they're taking this seriously, a child under 18 should not be messing around with puberty blocker's and other hormonal drugs . Let kids be kids .

A doctor's duty is to have the patients best interest at heart. And when it comes to your physical and psychological health ,this is important.

And yes it most definitely can be a phase , the detransitioning stories out there are heartbreaking.

[Liam-]

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

As usual you ignore all the detransitioning cases out there .

A boy wanting to be a girl who is under 18 still ,needs help & support. You can't just say "oh great let's get you that surgery and puberty blocker's" ..... utter madness

Same for a girl wanting to be a boy , again help and support . Surgery and medical treatment should never be taken lightly.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

As usual you ignore all the detransitioning cases out there .

A boy wanting to be a girl who is under 18 still ,needs help & support. You can't just say "oh great let's get you that surgery and puberty blocker's" ..... utter madness

Same for a girl wanting to be a boy , again help and support . Surgery and medical treatment should never be taken lightly.

Less than 1% of trans people decide to detransition, but for obvious reasons anti-trans campaigners latch onto these stories because it suits them to ignore the vast majority of trans people who are happy and comfortable.

I don’t know how many times you have to be told, you already have to be 18 before they allow you to have surgery, this belief that under 18’s are just being given surgeries is intellectually dishonest and shows the level of purposeful ignorance involved.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Less than 1% of trans people decide to detransition, but for obvious reasons anti-trans campaigners latch onto these stories because it suits them to ignore the vast majority of trans people who are happy and comfortable.

I don’t know how many times you have to be told, you already have to be 18 before they allow you to have surgery, this belief that under 18’s are just being given surgeries is intellectually dishonest and shows the level of purposeful ignorance involved.

I don't believe it's less than 1% , I've seen quite a few stories appear where they've regretted it .

The fact that the NHS has to bring in strict steps now ... just shows that below 18s were given the treatment or about to be.

I know in America younger trans people are definitely having medication and surgery.

[Liam-]

You can choose not to believe the truth if that’s what you want to do, but just know that you’re seeing these stories because the people behind the anti-trans movement are highlighting those stories to a disproportionate level.

If you’re happy for trans youth to essentially be told that they’re just confused or mentally ill, then I don’t really know what to say to you, but I don’t want to see you say at any point you care about protecting children in these instances because that’s simply not true

[Oliver_W]

With the amount of trans-identified people who have other mental disorders, it's good that such things are being considered.

Children and young people who are questioning their "gender" would be better off being given coping strategies to help them come to terms with not being what they "identify" as.

There's no evidence that blockers are safe and reversible, so anything is better than throwing safeguarding to wind.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Less than 1% of trans people decide to detransition, but for obvious reasons anti-trans campaigners latch onto these stories because it suits them to ignore the vast majority of trans people who are happy and comfortable.

I don’t know how many times you have to be told, you already have to be 18 before they allow you to have surgery, this belief that under 18’s are just being given surgeries is intellectually dishonest and shows the level of purposeful ignorance involved.

"trans youth"

chilling and worrying

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Liam-

You can choose not to believe the truth if that’s what you want to do, but just know that you’re seeing these stories because the people behind the anti-trans movement are highlighting those stories to a disproportionate level.

If you’re happy for trans youth to essentially be told that they’re just confused or mentally ill, then I don’t really know what to say to you, but I don’t want to see you say at any point you care about protecting children in these instances because that’s simply not true

How can you say that when there's members of the LGBT community themselves who think it's WRONG for children to be given puberty blockers and called trans ?. I know what you're saying about the right wing having their agenda. But surely there's a middle ground here.

Well you might not like it , but technically gender dysphoria is a mental condition which gets diagnosed by a doctor . And i wasn't saying all trans people regret their decision, some have transitioned/lived as the opposite gender from age 16 and they're still happy or content .

And it's not very nice to assume i don't care. I don't know why things like mental illness and conditions in general is still stigmatised. I believe transgender is a very real thing . There's been studies and research, to show how for e.g a boy who has gender dysphoria has similar brain patterns to a female.

But the point i'm making is there's different ways to help and support a child who is experiencing this . I don't think the answer should automatically be "yes ok then now you can be the opposite gender" . When you're under 18 you're still a minor and your parents still pretty much tells you what you can and can't do , your voice and feelings should still be listened to though.

Hasn't there even been cases where teachers will go against parents wishes ? just to please a child? .

[Mystic Mock]

I don't know if I personally like the term "phase" being used for people's feelings about their identity.

And thankfully like Liam has said, people under 18 can't have the surgery anyway, because to me that's a line that should never be crossed.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I don't know if I personally like the term "phase" being used for people's feelings about their identity.

And thankfully like Liam has said, people under 18 can't have the surgery anyway, because to me that's a line that should never be crossed.

They maybe can’t have surgery but they do apparently get given medications that alter their bodies - these changes are reversible.. although the changes to the brain are permanent !!


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[Zizu]

I know of one case where two 13 years old girls transitioning to boys started dating each other months afterwards .. dating as boys though .. not girls

That is such a complex relationship


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[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Zizu

They maybe can’t have surgery but they do apparently get given medications that alter their bodies - these changes are reversible.. although the changes to the brain are permanent !!


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Which is what i was trying to say , but people keep putting their fingers in their ears going "la la la not true la la la they only get it at age 18 la la la " .

I knew they were being given medication/ puberty blockers at a very young age .

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Which is what i was trying to say , but people keep putting their fingers in their ears going "la la la not true la la la they only get it at age 18 la la la " .

I knew they were being given medication/ puberty blockers at a very young age .

Excuse the copy and pasting


:::

The NHS is thankfully shutting down its gender identity clinic for children at the Tavistock and Portman NHS foundation trust after it was criticised in an independent review.

The Tavistock clinic, named the Gender and Identity Development Service (Gids), was launched more than three decades ago to help children and other young people struggling with their gender identity.

But in recent years, concerns have repeatedly been raised about the service. Inspectors rated it “inadequate” after complaints raised by whistleblowers, patients and families.
The service was criticised for its care of patients both inside and outside the clinic, and it also had record waiting lists. Doctors reported concerns that some patients were referred on to a gender transitioning pathway too quickly.
“The aim is to close the Tavistock clinic [the Gender and Identity Development Service (Gids)] by spring 2023, moving to the new provider model through specialist children hospitals,” a senior NHS source told the Guardian. There will be no immediate changes for patients already under the Tavistock’s care, according to the source. “The children being seen by the Tavistock (and those on waiting lists) will be transferred to a new provider over the course of that time.”

It followed recommendations from Dr Hilary Cass, who is leading an independent review of gender identity services for children and young people.

Yes, an NHS review has found that the drugs that the NHS has been giving to some children may disrupt their brain development and leave them less able to make complex decisions. Those drugs might have long-term consequences for the mental functioning of the children who were given them.
Now, years after their use began, Cass proposes that the NHS undertake serious and systematic research into the use of puberty blockers. Put another way, now that the horse has left the stable and has run*headlong into a brick wall, we’re starting to think about whether bolting the stable door might be a good idea.
This all raises many grim questions. Here are just two. Given the lack of evidence supporting the use of puberty blockers and the volume of concerns raised about their use, why has it taken so long for the uncertainties and risks around their use to be officially recognised? And is there any other context in which the responsible authorities – medical, governmental and political – would have been so slow to intervene over such scandalous disregard for the welfare of children?


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[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

Yes that is sad
Liam

[Redway]

No lie was told by the NHS. No doubting certain people will come for me and my ‘messed up way of thinking’ just because I have a non-biased moral compass that might seem a bit unfairly uncompromising but at the end of the day you can’t go messing with a kid who’s still trying to figure out what their identity is in the first place. Sheriff and Swan are more-than welcome to argue with me for the sake of arguing but I don’t think I’m alone with these sentiments.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

With the amount of trans-identified people who have other mental disorders, it's good that such things are being considered.

Children and young people who are questioning their "gender" would be better off being given coping strategies to help them come to terms with not being what they "identify" as.

There's no evidence that blockers are safe and reversible, so anything is better than throwing safeguarding to wind.

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Redway

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

I agree with this.

We may all have different opinions on this thread, but the one thing we do need to be careful of is the way that Trans people are being classed as mentally ill by some people.

[Redway]

According to some people on this little forum anyone who doesn’t have the same opinion, preference or outlook as them has a diagnosis that warrants them being straitjacketed in a secure unit with no right to privacy (ironically) so I’m not surprised some people think transgenders are insane. People love to pathologise what they don’t like or understand.

[Redway]

Idiots.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Redway

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

This is from the NHS website itself

Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

This sense of unease or dissatisfaction may be so intense it can lead to depression and anxiety and have a harmful impact on daily life.


I don't think Oliver meant it in an offensive way ,and technically it is a condition that the doctor diagnoses . Like I keep saying shouldn't the whole point be to DE stigmatise mental health , anxiety,body Dysmorphia etc aswell as other conditions out there.

There's real life science studies to show that trans people's brains are similar to the opposite gender, so clearly their feelings & what they're going through is very real . I don't think anyone is calling them "straight jacket crazy" .
But people especially these days may suffer with other conditions & issues that they need support with. We need to stop stigmatising struggles as we're all human and should help eachother out.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Redway

Let’s hold it right there. Transsexualism isn’t a mental disorder. That’s an incredibly backwards way of thinking.

It literally is though. Body dysmorphia in general is a mental health disorder, no-one would dispute that. So why does saying that become controversial when we're talking about someone whose "gender identity" doesn't align with what they actually are?

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

This is from the NHS website itself

Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

This sense of unease or dissatisfaction may be so intense it can lead to depression and anxiety and have a harmful impact on daily life.


I don't think Oliver meant it in an offensive way ,and technically it is a condition that the doctor diagnoses . Like I keep saying shouldn't the whole point be to DE stigmatise mental health , anxiety,body Dysmorphia etc aswell as other conditions out there.

There's real life science studies to show that trans people's brains are similar to the opposite gender, so clearly their feelings & what they're going through is very real . I don't think anyone is calling them "straight jacket crazy" .
But people especially these days may suffer with other conditions & issues that they need support with. We need to stop stigmatising struggles as we're all human and should help eachother out.

Yes . .. that is my take on Oliver’s post .


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[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

A tragic turn of events that’ll lead to even higher self harm and suicide rates for trans youth, I just hope that all the transphobes pushing for things like this can live comfortably knowing they’ll have blood on their hands because of their ignorance

What a ridiculous and irresponsible claim to make Liam. When did we get to a place where suicide is used as a threat like that? You don't give children life altering drugs with irreversible side effects because they might commit suicide otherwise, when did we get to this point? What the NHS are saying is that they need to explore more thoroughly what's going on in that young persons head before setting them on such an extreme pathway. The reason why the Tavistock is being closed is because there was no other areas of the young persons problems looked at other than their gender claims and evidence strongly suggests that a lot of those claiming to be trans in recent years are autistic and probably not actually trans at all. What is the actual issue in making sure that they are trans before giving them drugs that will cause sterilisation and life long medicalisation? I don't understand why you're so against making sure first?