[Mystic Mock]

I think that we've all heard or read people online talking about how "woke" new Shows are today and that it's basically the reason for the decline in recent Hollywood content full stop.

However do you think that "woke-ism" is the issue as to why modern TV sucks so badly? Or do you think it's something else? Or do you think that modern TV is better?

Now personally I'm someone that is somewhere in the middle of this topic, because I am definitely someone that hates most of the content that modern Hollywood is throwing out at the moment, but it's not because they're being more diverse in their casting (I will touch on that debate later on in my post) but for now I want to touch on my main issues with modern TV from the US.

1. Most of their Shows are only 8 episodes a season, which means just as the story might be gaining any momentum it's over. I personally can't stand having to wait three years just to get 8 episodes when years ago you could get 12 episodes of Dexter (for example) every single year and let's be honest with Cable Shows you would tend to get better writing on top of having more episodes.

2. A lot of writers just don't know what a story even is nowadays, let alone tell a good story that's go to be remembered for decades to come.

3. One of the worst issues with modern TV in Hollywood imo is the fact that most of the characters don't have a personality, I don't know if it's because Hollywood are scared of people finding the more out there personalities to be offensive, or if the writers are having a very warped view of what good character writing is in comparison to the majority of the public.

4. Touching on the diversity of the casting, I think it's less about the writers being "woke" but more them trying to disguise the fact that they can't write good stories, so they try to make themselves look good by casting more diverse in the vain hope to get support that otherwise wouldn't be there if the Show was having an all-white cast because the script is terrible regardless of casting. Obviously though racist groups do like to pile the blame on "diverse" casting because it fits their narrative as to why a particular Show sucks. Having said that I obviously don't agree with Historical figures like Anne Boleyn being race swapped, but that's because of it making that series severely inaccurate and it's not even for the sake of entertainment it's just a pointless change. But in fairness I'm going off-topic slightly with mentioning that depiction, and it does highlight some bizarre casting decisions for Historical works.

And I do think that while we don't want token casting on TV Shows, a lot of the anti-Woke crowd imo make themselves look silly that they can't handle just seeing black people on TV or the fact that a woman can be physically competent, I mean The Sandman if I'm not mistaken had a few black women in their first Season, and imo they all served a function in their respective roles, yet the anti-Woke crowd by and large didn't even give any of them a chance.

Now you could say it's just a difference of opinion which would be fair to say, but then I've noticed that they have done similar things to The Rings Of Power & Gotham Knights.

I'll start with ROP first as this was the first time that I paid real attention to what the anti-Woke crowd were doing, they basically attacked this Show for being Woke before it had even aired, and low and behold they all felt the exact same way when it aired, and look I'm not saying that you can't dislike ROP, but it was clear what the anti-Woke crowd were up to when this particular crowd were also pushing House Of The Dragon which were depicting the women in a much more conservative and submissive roles rather than the Clare-esque Galadriel, and the only issue that they had with HOTD in the first Season was with the black Targaryen guy conveniently (I can't remember his name)

Now again you can like HOTR and dislike that particular character without being in that particular anti-Woke bubble that some people are in.

And just yesterday I can't remember the name of the Youtuber that made a video to do with Gotham Knights, but he basically started bragging about how people don't want to watch Shows that "over represent the LGBT community" and to me as someone that has never watched a single second of Gotham Knights, it kind of pissed me off how he was more concerned about that than if the writing is good, or if the acting is good, it weren't a very fair reflection of what the Show is like away from "oh it has gay characters" which doesn't really tell me a damn thing about the quality of the Show either way.

Apologies for being so long winded, but my point basically is that yes modern TV in America does suck by and large imo, but I think we need to be careful not to go back to the 60's/70's era of TV where every Show just does stand alone episodes, women are cast just to look pretty, and one token black character that never really gets developed because writers are scared to face a bit of controversy.

And if we do go with the anti-Woke's definition of Woke, then that would mean a lot of beloved Shows are "woke" because they either had empowered women or black people in them, or both.

I'm not saying that there aren't cases out there where it's probably gone too far (Velma and Vikings Valhalla are ones that sound ridiculous to me) but it's always good to keep an open mind that black characters and women can be well written characters for these Shows and actually contribute to the Show, like a recent Hollywood Show that did great with a black character imo is Finnley from Reacher, and Boyd Stevens from From is imo their best character.

I honestly will stop ranting now.

What are your opinions? Do you understand where the anti-Woke crowd are coming from or do you think it's a load of nonsense? Or do you feel somewhere inbetween like me?

Oh and to add one more thing, Hollywood needs to seriously make their dialogue less cookie cutter, especially for series that need to be more out there in content.

[Alf]

Are you being woke here, Mock?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Alf

Are you being woke here, Mock?

That's up for you to decide.

For me it depends on the topic, as I know that I could be depicted to be woke or prejudiced depending on what the topic is.

Out of interest do you think Shows are being harmed by the diversity quota? Or do you think that writers in Hollywood are just talentless hacks nowadays?

[LeatherTrumpet]

"Or do you feel somewhere inbetween like me?"

your post does not suggest this

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

"Or do you feel somewhere inbetween like me?"

your post does not suggest this

In what way?

I've pulled up Velma and Vikings Valhalla for their diversity quotas (because in particular a Show about Vikings shouldn't really be having non-blonde haired characters tbh) so it's not like I'm not willing to pull up Shows for unrealistic casting, or for being blatantly woke like Velma where that really isn't apart of the Scooby-Doo franchise from everything that I've seen and heard about the Show.

And just today I've learned that a black actor from Ant-Man 3 played Kang The Conqueror that's horrible flashbacks to white Aang from The Last Airbender Movie.

But I don't want Shows being hated on purely for having black characters either, or any other minority group which is what I'm pulling up.

[Nicky91]

amen Mock

and btw i myself do not care if something is ''woke'' if i enjoy it, that is more important, what i think for myself

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

In what way?

I've pulled up Velma and Vikings Valhalla for their diversity quotas (because in particular a Show about Vikings shouldn't really be having non-blonde haired characters tbh) so it's not like I'm not willing to pull up Shows for unrealistic casting, or for being blatantly woke like Velma where that really isn't apart of the Scooby-Doo franchise from everything that I've seen and heard about the Show.

And just today I've learned that a black actor from Ant-Man 3 played Kang The Conqueror that's horrible flashbacks to white Aang from The Last Airbender Movie.

But I don't want Shows being hated on purely for having black characters either, or any other minority group which is what I'm pulling up.

I guess another example is the new BBC Great expectations that started yesterday, but I honestly think it's more to do with people being fed up of constant remakes for the sake of it . That's been rated a 4 on IMDB , but people seem to dislike it more for the tone being different to the original. I don't think it's because of the diverse cast list as such. It also feels like they're dragging out the story aswell.

[Oliver_W]

I think it's a case of two things being true at once - the term itself is being overused, while at the same time it describes something which does happen, i.e. enforced quotas, even in shows and movies where they "wouldn't make sense".

[bitontheslide]

Americans have been putting a forced moral message in their media for as long as i can remember, it's nothing new. It has spread as we import more and more of their media via streaming services that they predominantly control. I just choose something else, we are not being forced to watch anything we don't like

[Liam-]

‘Woke’ has lost all meaning in all senses, angry right wingers have bled it dry

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Liam-

‘Woke’ has lost all meaning in all senses, angry right wingers have bled it dry

it really hasnt

what you mean is you fear it

[arista]

Originally Posted by Liam-

‘Woke’ has lost all meaning in all senses, angry right wingers have bled it dry

I am not angry.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

But I don't want Shows being hated on purely for having black characters either, or any other minority group which is what I'm pulling up.

I doubt that there are many who feel that way.
I don’t watch the same stuff as you Mock so I can’t really comment on those. The only thing I noticed really was the casting of a black woman in the role of Anne Boleyn and other black actors in place of white in key roles in the series which was just pointless wokery. In historical drama's a person's ethnicity should be accurately represented, imo.
I mean, who would want to see a white man in the role of Nelson Mandela for instance?
Otherwise, I never really notice skin colour in what I watch, I notice whether the actors are good in the roles and if I’m enjoying it….

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I guess another example is the new BBC Great expectations that started yesterday, but I honestly think it's more to do with people being fed up of constant remakes for the sake of it . That's been rated a 4 on IMDB , but people seem to dislike it more for the tone being different to the original. I don't think it's because of the diverse cast list as such. It also feels like they're dragging out the story aswell.

Tbf I can agree with that crowd that we're getting too many remakes in our entertainment rather than original content.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by jet

I doubt that there are many who feel that way.
I don’t watch the same stuff as you Mock so I can’t really comment on those. The only thing I noticed really was the casting of a black woman in the role of Anne Boleyn and other black actors in place of white in key roles in the series which was just pointless wokery. In historical drama's a person's ethnicity should be accurately represented, imo.
I mean, who would want to see a white man in the role of Nelson Mandela for instance?
Otherwise, I never really notice skin colour in what I watch, I notice whether the actors are good in the roles and if I’m enjoying it….

I agree with you about the Anne Boleyn situation.

In this day and age we should be having accurate casting for Historical figures in our Live Action output.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I guess another example is the new BBC Great expectations that started yesterday, but I honestly think it's more to do with people being fed up of constant remakes for the sake of it . That's been rated a 4 on IMDB , but people seem to dislike it more for the tone being different to the original. I don't think it's because of the diverse cast list as such. It also feels like they're dragging out the story aswell.

Estella was adopted, she could easily have been black.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Estella was adopted, she could easily have been black.

Yes i know , i didn't say there was anything wrong with that. A while ago Sophie Okonedo played Nancy in a version of Oliver which was cool .

I'm talking more with how they keep retelling classics over and over again, without thinking of original stories . And they're way of switching it up is to just fill the diverse quota or alter the dialogue and tone to add more 'drama'.

I guess the good thing about it is it reintroduces Dickens..... to another generation who might not be familiar with all his stories.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

I agree with you about the Anne Boleyn situation.

In this day and age we should be having accurate casting for Historical figures in our Live Action output.

The Anne Boleyn was a strange one, i never actually watched it .

It felt like they were either trying to be overly PC just for the attention, or like they were shaking up the whole historical story by doing more of a fantasy adaptation, rather than sticking to accuracy .... but i don't know.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

The Anne Boleyn was a strange one, i never actually watched it .

It felt like they were either trying to be overly PC just for the attention, or like they were shaking up the whole historical story by doing more of a fantasy adaptation, rather than sticking to accuracy .... but i don't know.

Tbf I haven't watched it either, but I do think Anne Boleyn in Live Action should be cast historically accurate.

Controversially though I wouldn't care if the Actress was doing voice acting and portrayed Anne Boleyn, because as long as she does a good performance behind how Anne Boleyn is supposed to have looked then that's fine by me.