[Kate..]

We were talking about it in science, i'm just not really sure lol
xx

[Sticks]

See this site

You need to ask how you get that which is non living to give rise to that which is living

Also if the way a species is meant to change from one to another is by genetic mutation, how come we have never documented a good mutation? The only mutations we see in nature are bad ones, which nature will select against.

What about the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record?

How about what Lord Soley Zuckerman, who spent twenty years studying the Australopithecines who said that "If Mankind has evolved from the apes, then he has done so with out leaving a trace in the fossil record"

[DreadPirate]

Wasn't Charles Darwin on a ten pound note? I don't remember seeing God on a tenner. Says it all really.

[Conor]

What is really weird or else a freaky coinsidence is that the Creation and evelotion therys both go in kinda the same order in which things formed first, and thats not just animals, it's also the diffirent stages of the world being formed, when the bible was wrote, no one knew anything about that, so it would have been impossible for it to have been writen purposly like that.

[XxShortyxX]

What's Evolution mean? Sorry I'm thick

[Sarah.]

Evolution is a myyysterryyyyyy ... Full of change that no one sees......

[XxShortyxX]

Originally posted by mrs_rko
Evolution is a myyysterryyyyyy ...

Ok, that helps me alot

[indiemusic]

Yea i do. I mean i don't really believe in god and i can't believe we just popped out of the ground. As we certainly weren't around when dinosaurs where here.

Bit i still want to know how the first ever animal was "created" with nothing to evolve from

[Conor]

Originally posted by indiemusic
Yea i do. I mean i don't really believe in god and i can't believe we just popped out of the ground. As we certainly weren't around when dinosaurs where here.

Bit i still want to know how the first ever animal was "created" with nothing to evolve from

Only 1 word for me, God.

[Shaun]

Originally posted by DreadPirate
Wasn't Charles Darwin on a ten pound note? I don't remember seeing God on a tenner. Says it all really.

I don't know about Darwin, but I think assessing the meaning of life on the basis of Ł10 notes is a little bizarre.

Does Darwin have a religion with between 1 and 2 billion believers (maybe more, I'm not sure on the exact figure)? Says it all really.

As for evolution; I think it's a load of rubbish.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by indiemusic
Yea i do. I mean i don't really believe in god and i can't believe we just popped out of the ground. As we certainly weren't around when dinosaurs where here.

I have a book that publishes a pictogram produced by alleged cavemen which is of an upright dinosaur.

Also if you look at the Book of Job, the description of the Leviathan and the Behemoth matches that of dinosaurs. Some of the footnotes try and say that they were a hippo and a crocodile, but the description does not match

Originally posted by Shaun
As for evolution; I think it's a load of rubbish.

Whilst nominally being on your side of the argument, when you make an assertion you need to give a reason, which is what I attempted to do.

The General Theory of Evolution makes a number of assumptions which are hard to justify in the face of the evidence, mutation rates, lack of transitional forms and the shaky assumptions in radiometric rock dating.

This is not to be confused with the Special Theory of Evolution, which creationists accept, which simply put is "All things change with in limits. Phylogenetic boundaries are respected not violated"

[DreadPirate]

Originally posted by Shaun
I don't know about Darwin, but I think assessing the meaning of life on the basis of Ł10 notes is a little bizarre.

Its not really about the "meaning of life" though is it, its explanations from scientists.

I know more people that believe in money than believe in God.

[cepb]

The basic theory of evolution is that whilst genes copy themselves, sometimes they make mistakes known as mutations. Some mutations are beneficial and so the organism will survive for longer and so pass on more of its genes, whith its offspring in turn passing on spreading the beneficial gene. Most mutations are not beneficial. So evolution is a very slow process.

It makes sense, so yes I believe in evolution.

[Sticks]

Can you give us a documented case of a good mutation?

I know the old chestnut about bacterial resistance to antibiotics, but that was due to the flow of plasmids in the gene pool and nothing to do with genetic mutations.

[cepb]

I can't personally give you an example, but scientists have proved it?

If it wasn't as a result of mutations, how did evolution occur in your opinion?

[Sticks]

Originally posted by cepb
I can't personally give you an example, but scientists have proved it?

If it wasn't as a result of mutations, how did evolution occur in your opinion?

The alternative to Evolution is Special Creation, a k a Genesis Chapter 1

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Conor

Only 1 word for me, God.

Does that tell you who or what created "God".....Nope.....Sorry I think you are barking up the wrong tree as the saying goes.....

Do I believe in evolution. Answer Nope.....Bigger load of rubbish than the daily tabloids.....

Just accept the fact we don't know our origin and probably never will.........

[indiemusic]

[

Only 1 word for me, God. [/quote]

But how did 2 people create 6 billion?? Actually that means that whoever we marry we are essentially marrying a family member if it is true. Pretty sick

[bananarama]

Originally posted by indiemusic
[

Only 1 word for me, God.

But how did 2 people create 6 billion?? Actually that means that whoever we marry we are essentially marrying a family member if it is true. Pretty sick [/quote]

Is not mankind one huge family. Always has been the case. Your conclusions are true of course but does it matter after millions of generations of breeding has elapsed. Hardly family members except in that we are all genetically related as a human species that unfortunately behave more often then not in an inhuman way.....

By the way the animals we eat have the same basic internal design as us humans. We are all related in some way. That of course makes meat eaters canibals......

[Sticks]

Originally posted by indiemusic
[

Only 1 word for me, God.

But how did 2 people create 6 billion?? Actually that means that whoever we marry we are essentially marrying a family member if it is true. Pretty sick [/quote]

This is a variant of where did Cain get his wife.

Simply put he married his sister, which implies incest.

So why are we conditioned against incest?

Simply because it will cause and lock in genetic diseases in the gene pool.

But roll this back to the Garden of Eden and just a bit forward. At that time, the gene pool was pure, there were no genetic defects at all, so it was perfectly safe for Cain to marry his sister.

Later in the Book of Genesis, we see two examples of an incestuous relationship, which was not sanctioned, when Lot's daughters got him drunk, so that they could get him to make them pregnant. Was there any thing physically wrong with those children - no

The Gene pool at that time was still relatively safe, but as time wore on and the 2nd law of Thermodynamics takes place and genetic disorders do creep in, then incest is banned, to protect the human race, which is where we are at today.

Also, I do not know how many people follow this line, but this also means that one of our ancestors was Noah,.

[spacebandit]

Originally posted by Sticks

The alternative to Evolution is Special Creation, a k a Genesis Chapter 1

Do you believe the bible, in relation to creation [as that is the subject at hand}, is the true word of god ?

You have mentioned "Special Creation", which you described as "Genesis Chapter 1". it is also however another euphemism for "Intelligent Design", which I must suspect you knew, so beloved of the Charlatans of the Right Wing Christian Evangelical Movement within the United States as a back door way to promote the fiction of creation over evolution in the US public School System. Which would be the equivalent of putting Creationism on our School Syllabus and having it taught as fact.


Also when it comes to creationism, you put forward the alternative to evolution as Genesis Chapter 1.

So can you explain to me why does "creation" have to be the Judeo-Christian version of it ?. Faith or dogma cannot be included in the answer as you are the one using it to attempt to debunk evolution, whilst asking for hard scientific evidence - goose and gander come to mind.

You attempt to make an argument that evolution cannot be proven without a direct fossil record, strange that you do not make the same claim for the creationist version. Perhaps because the fiction of creation most certainly cannot be proven within the fossil record. I do find it hilarious when creationists attempt to use the fossil record to debunk evolution, as the very same fossil record absolutely destroys the creationist theory.

Creationism is a hypocrites tool, the very reasons they seek to debunk evolution, they know full well cannot be applied to them, from a scientifive perspective, Creationism explains nothing because it invokes a God / Creator, a conscious and intelligent designer. The idea of a Creator-God can not be falsified, the argument against is always "Faith" and always "Faith" without proof, the very opposite of what the Creation Hypocrites demand from scientists, and can therefore not be part of a scientific theory.

Should G-d actually exist, it can not be found in the part of reality that is observable by us and can therefore not be shown to be either existant or non-existant, and therefore not be falsified.

The concept of a "creator" is dictated by religious belief and it can not be falsified, because we are dealing with dogma which can not be tempered to any bounds the Creationists demand of scientists

[Dr43%er]

"But roll this back to the Garden of Eden and just a bit forward. At that time, the gene pool was pure, there were no genetic defects at all, so it was perfectly safe for Cain to marry his sister."

As you are always asking for documentation I thought I would ask you for some.

Where is the proof that they were genetically pure? Do you have copies of the DNA tests they had?

[Scarlett.]

The garden of eden didnt exist it was used to fill a blank space

The Big Bang was started by god, and from there on life was born and evolved

[indiemusic]

But guys if you look back to caveman times they were a less evolved form of us so surely it isn't much of a stretch to monkeys??

What about these fossils of walking apes they find?? did they just die out,and if so how??

But like i said it seems almost impossible for two people to become 6 billion, i mean how did they get different skin colours?? Also each generation would probably need to have about 1000 children atleast? to get to 6 billion.

Another question i want answered is how did we get surnames?? Who created them??

Actually there are loads of questions i want answered but i won't go into them.

[Sticks]

For the record, I do not support the proponents of Intelligent Design, as it is a classic theological trap of "God of the Gaps". Creationism should be at the front door and not the back door as critics of ID have labelled it as such.

Also we do not need ID, when we have the Anthropic Cosmological Principal, which was devised by atheists.

Also I have never advocated teaching Creationism in Science classes, but in RE classes, since to do the former upsets science teachers and puts them in a bind, another mistake made by creationists across the pond.

Dr43%er you asked for documentation, well there is the account in Genesis of Lot and his two daughters. Although that example of incest was definitely not sanctioned, there is no reference to anything being physically wrong with the two children born from that incident, showing that at that point the gene pool was still relatively clear at that point.

indiemusic, we still have cave-people to this day. People still live in caves. I am informed that there is a tribe of indigenous South American people who are the foremost workers of turquoise, and they still live in caves. Just because you live in a cave, does not make you less "evolved"

As for references to stone age, iron age and bronze age, these are false designations, as one lot of people could have been working with iron while another lot were still working with stone. Not every one progressed technologically at the same time. It is like that today. Compare our culture with that of the Australian aborigines who are living in the bush.

Also Evolution does not say we came from monkeys ore apes, but that apes, monkeys and humans have a common ancestor.

As far as skin colour there is an explanation for that which applies whether you believe in Adam and Eve or Mr and Mrs Australopithecus. The original couple would have to have had a mixture of the dominant and recessive genes that control melonine production in the skin. Depending on where you move to, a particular combination will win out, and by the Special Theory of Evolution, you get the variation required, but we are still one species, since someone from the Nordic countries could marry someone from Africa and they would be able to have children, who would grow up and have children of their own.