[Magic]

Leading up to Christmas, in this thread we will be discuing issues based on Christmas.


Some of the issue's up for discussion later include -

1. Is christmas just a money making scam?


2. Should only religious people celebrate christmas?
3. Should parents lie to their children regarding Santa?
4. Is christmas too comercial?
5. Has the true meaning of Christmas gone?

If you have a issue regarding Christmas you would like to be discussed, please post here.

[Scarlett.]

Nah, it kinda is but it brings familys together and is a day where you can just rest

[Ann]

I think it,s A Day For The Children To Enjoy Opening Their Presents and Having A Great Day To Celebrate With Family At The Table and I Love Seeing Their Faces As They Are Doing So Too.

[Retroman]

1. No it isn't JUST a money making scam, though money making scams do go on at Christmas time.

2. To be fair, yes...only Christians can truly celebrate Christmas for what it is. Im Atheist and was never baptised, but still celebrate it for the sake of presents/family/food and decorations =] but that's the point, non religious people celebrate it for reasons that have nothing to do with what Christmas is actually about.

3. I can't remember the days when I did believe in Santa, so to me it wouldn't matter...though perhaps not having the joy of Santa in your life cound effect you psychologically later on? so perhaps it's better to have a little "magic" in your life at a young age, because it'll all be gone when you're older.

[Magic]

Originally posted by Chewy
Nah, it kinda is but it brings familys together and is a day where you can just rest

But what about all the adverts, that start in October, which attempt to sell there toy. Parents feel forced to buy presents for there children, because its the must have toy.

How many people do you know that think of Christmas as JUST a time for familys?

How many people go in dept each year becuase of buying pointless presents?

[Scarlett.]

But its a time to be jolly

[Wasted]

1. Christmas is probably the most commercial time of the year, not sure about it being a "money-making scam" though. People are always looking to make money at any time of the year.

2. I don't think so really. Even a lot of people who have religious faith and beliefs mainly see the commercial side as well as its religious meaning anyway. And apart from commercialism and religion, there are other sides to Christmas that are sentimental - like spending time with your family and giving, you don't have to be religious to do either of those. It's a time of year that a lot of people look forward to, religious or not. Even though Christmas is fundamentally about the birth of Christ, I guess it means different thing to different people, personally I don't see anything wrong with that.

3. Dunno, lol. There's no harm in it I guess.

[Jackie]

It can be if you let it.I normally buy a few presents each fortnight so i dont have to break the bank.

[Magic]

I also think that commercial giants abuse Christmas.
The true meaning has gone.

[Sunny_01]

1. Is christmas just a money making scam?

There is an awful lot of money made around christmas and some very dodgy traders cash in at this time of year but if people buy wisely they can avoid them.
2. Should only religious people celebrate christmas?

No, christmas now has a double meaning. For those that are not interested in the fact that it is a time to celebrate the birth of christ, it can be a wonderful time that brings families together to enjoy the company of each other. It can be a time for love and kindness, and a time to enjoy exchanging gifts
3. Should parents lie to their children regarding Santa?

Hell yes, why take away the little magic children have in their short lives. All to soon someone bursts the santa bubble for small children. Why take something from them that they clearly love and enjoy.
4. Is christmas too comercial?

Christmas is very commercial now, it is all about buying the biggest gifts, the best toys and spending a lot of money. Does that make it a bad thing? In my opinion no, it makes it a time when people put thought into what they want to get to show others that they care and if the big companies make a mint out of it well so be it.
5. Has the true meaning of Christmas gone?

If you are on about it being a time to celebrate the birth of Christ then yes that does seem a little lost these days. Many small children will know it is when santa comes but not that Jesus was born (even though he actually wasnt born the) That said the magic is still there and surely that is what christmas is all about. At christmas people put aside their ill feelings for others, they are more tolerant and understanding, does that no in itself embrace the true meaning of christmas.

[Dr43%er]

2. Should only religious people celebrate christmas?

By religious do you mean Christians? As there are a lot of religious people out there that don't believe in Christ.

Assuming you did mean Christians. If a Christian says that non Christians should not have anything to do with Christmas, I just point out that as it is a festival stolen from the pagans it is a bit rich of them to lay down the law.

[Hugo]

It is. But it's an enjoyable money making scam.

[Magic]

New Issue

Has the true meaning of Christmas gone now? Is'nt Christmas about the birth of Jesus Christ, not about presents, food, and more commercial stuff?

[Lauren]

Christmas is a public holiday, not a religious holiday.
Therefore no, it had no true meaning in the beginning. It's never been true.

[Magic]

Originally posted by Lauren
Christmas is a public holiday, not a religious holiday.
Therefore no, it had no true meaning in the beginning. It's never been true.

But why did 'Christmas' become a holiday? Doen't it relate to the 'Birth of Jesus'

And isn't a bit extrene to say its never been true. Thats a diffrent issue, and dont you think it's impossible to say that there definetle has been no religion?

P.S - I am not arguing, I am trying to get a depate going

[Scarlett.]

Religous Cards should still be sold

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Magic-Shoes

But why did 'Christmas' become a holiday? Doen't it relate to the 'Birth of Jesus'

And isn't a bit extrene to say its never been true. Thats a diffrent issue, and dont you think it's impossible to say that there definetle has been no religion?

P.S - I am not arguing, I am trying to get a depate going

Jesus wasn't even born on Dec. 25th though - so why did they choose an original pagan festival date to make 'Christmas' ?

Also, I didn't say there was no religion - I accept people have religion and faith even if I don't - I meant just this particular holiday.

[Magic]

Originally posted by Lauren

Jesus wasn't even born on Dec. 25th though - so why did they choose an original pagan festival date to make 'Christmas' ?

Also, I didn't say there was no religion - I accept people have religion and faith even if I don't - I meant just this particular holiday.

I heard that too - Jesus was apparently 'born' in may! <(How would someone know the month?)

But wasnt the meaning of Christmas to celebrate the birth of Jesus, God's son?

[Scarlett.]

There will be records of Jesus being born, as he was a real person, if he was gods son depends if you belive in Christianity, plus the census done on the day would have made it easy to tell when it happened, so more likely than not, it may be his birthday

[Lauren]

The original "christmas" was called Winter Solstice... it was a Pagan festival to celebrate the changing of seasons. This involved giving 'presents' to people to bide them through cold times. Personally I believe this is where the modern day Christmas comes from.

However, in early Roman times there was arguments between Pagans and the Church of England and at the time the CoE was a moneymaking beauracratic hierarchy where the people at the top made a LOT of money - it is believed they chose Dec. 25th in order to try and convert Pagans to Christianity.

Obviously other people have varying opinions on this, but I don't see the religious connotations of Christmas - since originally its simply a festival to mark the changing of seasons. I accept, however, that Christians like to celebrate the birth of Jesus on this day and I'm not opposed to this - just personally for me it's nothing to do with this.

Edit: Chewy, there were a few people named Jesus on the census around that time but since its been translated and retranslated from early Hebrew we can't get an exact date of birth. Also, they have numerous documents from the time of 'Jesus' (i.e., the people on the census) and from none of these documents do they mention a miracle-maker carpenter. Strange, considering the things he did. However, I'm not prepared to tear about the concept of religion right now cos I do respect others faith and don't want to be disrespectful as to counteract the bible.

[Magic]

Originally posted by Lauren
The original "christmas" was called Winter Solstice... it was a Pagan festival to celebrate the changing of seasons. This involved giving 'presents' to people to bide them through cold times. Personally I believe this is where the modern day Christmas comes from.

However, in early Roman times there was arguments between Pagans and the Church of England and at the time the CoE was a moneymaking beauracratic hierarchy where the people at the top made a LOT of money - it is believed they chose Dec. 25th in order to try and convert Pagans to Christianity.

Obviously other people have varying opinions on this, but I don't see the religious connotations of Christmas - since originally its simply a festival to mark the changing of seasons. I accept, however, that Christians like to celebrate the birth of Jesus on this day and I'm not opposed to this - just personally for me it's nothing to do with this.

So, still, hasn't the true meaning of Christmas gone?

[Lauren]

If by the true meaning of christmas you mean we give presents to bide people through cold times, then yes - the true Pagan festival of winter solstice has gone But thats cos we live in such a modern world where we don't have to bide people through cold times - they can just pop down to Asda for that!

[spacebandit]

Jesus was born, and so I get presents,
Thank You, Jesus, for being born

Eric Theodore Cartman

[Sticks]

Flavius Josephus and Tacitus are hostile sources who confirm that Jesus existed.

As for the date of Jesus birth, I have heard a good argument for October, around the beginning of Tishri, which is of Jewish significance. There is also a date in April given by some. It is clear, it was not 25 December.

The festival Christmas supplanted was the 12 feasting days of Saturnali, and only came in in 325 CE

According to some Christian contacts I have spoken to, they do not celebrate or recognise Christmas, as the New Testament does not authorise or command us to celebrate Jesus birth.

Christmas is therefore, unscriptuaral. It may be pagan as well, but I am not using that as a derogative in deference to the Pagans here on the board.

I prefer Hanukkah anyway, which is mentioned in the New Testament, in the Gospel of John and referred to as the winter festival.

[KawaiiSakura1]

1. Is christmas just a money making scam? no


2. Should only religious people celebrate christmas? no
3. Should parents lie to their children regarding Santa? no
4. Is christmas too comercial? no
5. Has the true meaning of Christmas gone? no

All No's lol