[GiRTh]

It seems that the blueprint for a winner is much narrower than we first thought. People say girls dont vote for girls, thus a girl is unlikely to win - unless she has the talent of Leona. People say an over 25 will not appeal to the 14-20 demographic, thus an over 25 is unlikely to win. It seems the groups need to mixed or boy's only, so they appeal to the young especially girls. It seems that the boys section will year after year be the only vibrant and competitive section. It seems you dont need the X-factor at all. You just have to be young, male and goodlooking.


Is it still a talent contest? Should we go back to the American Idol/Pop Idol style of show?

[Billy]

It is still a talent contest, because each year, the best singer has won (series 2 debatable). But the thing is, its not a vote to evict, so the people who say young girldont vote for each other thats not really true, as it does depend on talent, but everything you mentioned about the 25s is what makes a star, theres no point them winning if there not gunna sell

[Red Moon]

Looking at Rhydian you could say it is a reject freak show.

The X-Factor is becoming more and more like Big Brother and it is losing it's way. Each year the show has to bigger and better and at some point soon will need to reinvent itself and go back to it roots. That is basically what happened to Big Brother this year after some of the biggest freaks reality TV has produced appeared on the show recently. Namly Jade Gobby and Nikki Grahame who opened their mouths only to start talking utter annoying poo poo.

[Billy]

Red, although you dont like him there's no way you can say he isnt talented

[GiRTh]

He is the most talented one in the final.

[Dan_]

I still think it is in some ways as yet again there is someone in the final with a great voice but when you've got an act like Same Difference in the final you start to think it's not all about talent.I've seen people say they deserve to win as they are nice people, fun, entertaining and other crud.Let's get a grip now people! Neither of them have special voices, you find acts like them at most Butlins.

There's no extraordinary talent in being able to be fun, you just have to put on an act.Even Simon Cowell said last week that it was about finding the act with the best voice, that's not Same Difference.

[GiRTh]

I agree Dan_

What I find puzzling is the whole 'girls dont vote for other girls' scenario that people talk of. If that is true then why dont they vote for other girls? I note that in American Idol four of the six seasons have been won by female singers. Are we saying that is unlikely to happen in this country? What does that say about the way we vote in these 'talent' contests?

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Billy
Red, although you dont like him there's no way you can say he isnt talented

I agree he is talented but I still think it would be freakish for an Opera Singer to win what started out to be a popular music talent show.

[Billy]

But who said its a popular music talent show?

[Red Moon]

Originally posted by Billy
But who said its a popular music talent show?

Well it's not Britain's Got Talent were anything goes. It was a spin off from pop idol which was a popular music talent show. It was created so that Simon Cowell had the rights to the show.

[Z]

It is a popular music talent show because the artist releases songs aimed at charting in the popular music charts. I've said this a number of times, I'd have thought it would be obvious by now. Rhydian is clearly not a pop singer. He's a good opera singer, that can't be denied, but that's why he shouldn't be on the X Factor.

[GiRTh]

If Rhydian doesn't win then surely the other options are much worse. The show would lose all its credability one of the other two won. Rhydian has got to win.

[Jack]

I think Rhydian would make a deserved winner. I don't see why the winner should conform to a particular genre of music and fall into the cliche "popstar" category. I mean, if every year someone like Shayne Ward won then it would be boring. Despite what other people think, I think Rhydian has a market and could do really well.

[Z]

Originally posted by Jack
I think Rhydian would make a deserved winner. I don't see why the winner should conform to a particular genre of music and fall into the cliche "popstar" category. I mean, if every year someone like Shayne Ward won then it would be boring. Despite what other people think, I think Rhydian has a market and could do really well.

I don't think people are understanding what I, and I think Red, are getting at. We can plainly see he is the best in the competition. He is a fantastic singer. But he is not a pop singer. The X Factor is a competition aimed at pop music.

The winner should conform because that's what the public want. If the winner goes off and decides to start recording screamo music, the public aren't going to buy it. It's an extreme example, but I think it illustrates what I mean the best. He certainly has a market, but it's not in the pop industry.

[Dan_]

Rhydian doesn't even need to go down the same route as Leona and Shayne by releasing songs aimed at the mainstream pop charts.He can just release albums like most of the other people in his genre of music do.He can be very successful in that market plus albums generally sell better than singles.

[GiRTh]

I don't think people are understanding what I, and I think Red, are getting at. We can plainly see he is the best in the competition. He is a fantastic singer. But he is not a pop singer. The X Factor is a competition aimed at pop music.

The winner should conform because that's what the public want. If the winner goes off and decides to start recording screamo music, the public aren't going to buy it. It's an extreme example, but I think it illustrates what I mean the best. He certainly has a market, but it's not in the pop industry.

I understand what you mean but surely talent is more important than market, hence this thread. If Rhydian doesn't win then should the mediocre Leon or SD walk away with the recording contract?

[Jack]

Since when did it say X Factor was about pop music?

[Z]

Originally posted by GiRTh
I understand what you mean but I surely talent is more imortant than market, hence this thread. If Rhydian doesn't win then should the mediocre Leon or SD walk away with the recording contract?

I'm not arguing against that, more the point that I don't think he should have been on the show in the first place. He will win, and out of the remaining three, he should win. However, I don't like him and I think in a few months time, everyone else is going to wake up and smell the coffee and wonder why on earth they ever voted for him to win the X Factor.

And to Jack, I already covered that point in my previous post. If the X Factor is not about pop music, what's it about? The winner of the X Factor releases songs to mass media, the general public etc. Therefore = pop music.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Z

I don't think people are understanding what I, and I think Red, are getting at. We can plainly see he is the best in the competition. He is a fantastic singer. But he is not a pop singer. The X Factor is a competition aimed at pop music.

The winner should conform because that's what the public want. If the winner goes off and decides to start recording screamo music, the public aren't going to buy it. It's an extreme example, but I think it illustrates what I mean the best. He certainly has a market, but it's not in the pop industry.

He's hardly conformed on the show to being pop and the public have voted him through to the final.

[Captain.Remy]

Yes the best will win, Rhydian and Leona have been better than the others, they deserved to win or (for Rhydian) deserves to win. I can't see why it's only a show aimed at pop music. It's a talent show so every talent should be on.

[Jack]

Originally posted by Z
And to Jack, I already covered that point in my previous post. If the X Factor is not about pop music, what's it about? The winner of the X Factor releases songs to mass media, the general public etc. Therefore = pop music.

If the X Factor was just about pop music then why would they let Rhydian get this far? Why did they put The Unconventionals through last year? The producers have clearly shown some bias in Rhydian and they wouldn't have done that if they didn't think he conformed to the competition.

[Z]

Originally posted by Dan_

He's hardly conformed on the show to being pop and the public have voted him through to the final.

?!?! I know this, that's my point! He is not singing pop music. He is not a pop singer. Yet he is set to win a contest aimed at pop music. Do you see the gaping flaw in this?

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Z
I'm not arguing against that, more the point that I don't think he should have been on the show in the first place.

That's a very difficult judgement call for the judges to make. They allowed G4 to enter the show and they went on to do very well. It's not impossible for an opera style of singer to sing pop. Look at Russell Watson.

[Dan_]

Originally posted by Z

?!?! I know this, that's my point! He is not singing pop music. He is not a pop singer. Yet he is set to win a contest aimed at pop music. Do you see the gaping flaw in this?

But if that's what the public like,which they clearly do, then why deny him the chance at winning the show? He's got a support base who will no doubt go out and buy his album regardless of it not being pop.What is the problem then?

[Z]

If there was a wall nearby, I'd hit my head against it (I'm not in a field or anything)


1) I think he's talented.
2) I realise that just about the rest of the Great British public will vote for him.
3) I realise many of those people will buy his music.

My issue with him winning the show is that he is not a pop singer. If he had been more like G4, in that he wasn't overwhelmingly popular, I wouldn't have had a problem with him winning. But it's because he's apparently wiping the floor with everyone else that I know we're going to have to put up with his irritatingly overdone voice for weeks, months, maybe even years. I don't think he should have been allowed through in the first place because he's too good for everyone else. People have been saying things like "His odds are better than Leona's, he'll do just as good as her" and it underlines that we will never again have a Leona on the X Factor. He's false hope. They shouldn't have put him through and let someone less talented win. We'd have had another Brookstein, but then someone like Rhydian could have been on the next series of it. But now we're going to have had two "amazing" winners in two series, so I'd imagine next series is either going to be rubbish or have yet another one horse race.

It's kind of hard to explain without people saying "but it's not a pop music contest" and making me want to kill things, because I've raked over those points several times. It's aimed at pop music. Having Rhydian win it just ruins that and I don't see the point in having a winner who won't sell records. He will sell them, of course, but I just don't like it.